16mm minimum grain

[Gabriel Lufrano]

Hello everyone,

 

We are about to shoot a commercial on 16mm and our priority is to achieve the cleanest image possible, with minimal grain. Ideally, we would overexpose 50D by one stop, but we are not sure we ll have the conditions to do so. Given that limitation, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the best approach:

1. Shooting 250D at 100 or 125 ISO and correcting in post.

2. Shooting 250D at 50 ISO and pulling one stop (or even two stops) in processing.

3. Sticking with 50D at box speed (no push or pull).

 

On a previous project, we had excellent results overexposing 50D by two stops, but that might not be possible this time.

 

Would love to hear your experiences and recommendations!

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited February 12, 2025 by Gabriel Lufrano
Grammatical errors

[Mohammed Tahir]

You might find this really helpful:
 

 

[Tyler Purcell]

You aren't going to have less grain by over exposing because it increases the contrast. The grain structure doesn't change if you over expose. 

So 50D would be the way to go and yes, if you wanted to over expose a tiny bit like a stop, you could retain better middle grey and black details, but you won't change the grain structure. 

Each of the Vision film stocks, is an entirely different emulsion, they have different looks as well. Many people prefer shooting 200T over box speed, simply because they prefer the look and it over exposes nicely and delivers a smoother grain structure similar to 50D than 250D. 

To truly change the grain structure, you need to shoot 35mm. 

[David Mullen ASC]

Overexposure gives the impression of less graininess because you expose the slower, smaller grains in between the larger, faster grains, so the structure "tightens" with a bit more exposure -- up to a point. Too much overexposure and you may start to see more highlight noise in the scan because the negative is so dense.

However, 50D isn't really a stock made up of a fast and slower layer, I don't think -- there isn't much smaller, slower grains left to be exposed, it's already using smaller grains as a base.

I've never found overexposure on the negative to increase contrast other than in contact prints because higher printer lights used creates better blacks... which give the impression of more contrast, more saturation.

And again, with a lot of overexposure you start to lose contrast because so much highlight information is on the flatter shoulder of the curve -- something Conrad Hall used for effect in movies like "Tequila Sunrise" and "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid." I once had a second unit DP accidentally load 500T when he thought he was using 50D, so he overexposed by over 3-stops. I could time it back down but the printer lights had to be trimmed to compensate and the look was a bit low in contrast.

[Dirk DeJonghe]

Another factor to consider: the blue layer is the most grainy one of the three, but also contributes least to the image; in a tungsten film, the blue layer needs to be more sensitive because the tungsten light sources are less potent in blue energy. This makes that a daylight film (250D) is less grainy than a similar tungsten type (200T) when blue sky etc are involved.

This said, (reasonable) grain is no longer considered as a defect but as a feature. We worked for a famous british director, first name Ken, who shoots on S16 because it matches his storytelling very well, if you have seen his films you will understand.