5009-s questions

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Good evening everyone and to my friends in LA I hope you all are surviving the deluge and the fires. If I can do anything to help any of you out here please let me know. It seems I may be embarking on a rather insane project this coming April, filming a feature film on a 5008-s camera. Now as much as I am sure that I can handle the film side of the film I'm curious if anybody has any solutions for the following problems:

 

Is there any way to adapt the camera to take V mout or gold mount or even NPF type batteries? I'm concerned with the age of the cells we have. 

As for base plates anybody happen to have a good base plate to adapt it to 15 mm rods? I may not need them but it might be nice to throw a matte box on and perhaps a wireless follow focus. I assume I could just use the tripod mount and any standard base plate but if somebody has a specialized solution I would love to hear it. 

 

On camera testing I had some issues with torn perfs, possibly because of old film but I'm curious if anybody has a way to check the gate on the camera that doesn't reset the film counter. I would love a way to make sure we actually got the shot that we think we got. 

 

Also any other tips and tricks would be amazing. As of right now I'm thinking of using mostly 200t for the run of show both for economic reasons and because I feel that at 200 I can correct to get acceptable day exterior and light enough to get fun enough noir-esque night scenes. 

 

Any help would be much deeply appreciated.

 

[Chris Burke]

I realize that budget may not allow it, but how much does it cost ot rent the brand new Kodak camera from Old Fast Glass? Balance that cost against the potential risks of shooting on the Beaulieu. The Kodak camera is much easier to rig.  You can record the video output from the HDMI port and check takes from that. I am not sure how much of the gate is exposed in the video tap, but it may work. It's a band new camera that is backed up by a rental house.

[Aapo Lettinen]

the camera should be in top notch condition if wanting to shoot a feature with it. Preferably you would have two of such cameras so that having backup immediately available if having issues, especially if the camera has custom accessories which would not fit a backup rental camera easily so the backup would need to be modified too.

If having possibility I would maybe get the camera body wired so that the power is fed via external connector which also has input to override the internal speed stabilization and exposure of the camera if needed, then use external devices to control those most of the time unless very compact setup is needed for a single scene or shot. it would then be easy to custom wire to run on vlocks and have additional speeds and adjust it "professional way" depending on the shooting situation needs when it can be controlled externally too. I know people want to have everything integrated into the camera body but that is a nightmare to customise and troubleshoot if having issues and if one can manage with external control it is much faster to get it running again if something breaks and it is possible to have backup controllers etc.

Never shot with 5008 though so don't know how reliable they are in stock configuration. Having two serviced cameras and adapters to run replace the original battery with regulated d-tap downconverter to get proper voltage should be fine for most use

[Eric Eader]

Adrian,

There are a couple of problems, but fashioning a base plate and follow focus rig for your 5008 can be done.

Back in the day, (80's, first Batman movie era). someone at Clairmont Camera sent me to a machinist on either Culver Blvd. or Jefferson Blvd. east of Sepulveda.  Clairmont would have done it but showing me some Cadillac- fin sized silver bullets they had just made and indicating tons of other stuff still to be made, they begged off.

This guy took some time but what he did really worked. I can't remember his name but maybe the guy from Clairmont (if still alive), will recognize those fins and my request and respond.

If memory serves I had the 6 to 66 zoom.  A geared ring was made for the zoom and a rectangular plate (3/8"(?), aluminum, to which posts (1" wide), were attached allowed my Chrozeil 4x4 mattebox and follow focus to work very well (rods were under lens, not along the side). Angled blocks secured the camera to the plate to permit the base and eyepiece to point in the same level direction. (Sorry I don't remember the exact dimensions... strong but not overkill).

The one NECESSARY correction was the addition of twin towers (just behind the lens mount along the sides), about the focal plane area that prevented the BODY from deviating/flexing when following focus.  Torque here is tractor tough.

The body is very flimsy, especially at its base, and oddly angled so those two problems must be solved. 

Panavision made some (model 4008), Super 8 rigs for "Flatliners" (80's)  but I don't know if the rods were 15mm.

Torn perfs were never a problem, but the first (and only time!!!), I left the battery on charge for too long the battery exploded and replacement cost was much more than the camera cost me. OOOOOOOOWWW!!! LOL.

I hope this will help.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jon O'Brien]

All the best with this project Adrian. I already want to see this feature movie! Let us know more as things proceed.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I shall do my best. At present was slated to start in April so we'll see what happens I never believe anything until the checks clear.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Hi!

Batteries:

https://www.testedsuper8cameras.com/new-family-of-batteries-for-beaulieu-3008-5008-4008-and-r16-2016/

Tripod base (where you can also mount accessories - not sure whether this includes rods):

https://www.wittnercinetec.com/epages/WittnerCinetec-Super8-16mm-Film.mobile/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=21785205
(TestedSuper8Cameras.com has got a lot of bases with rods, but I haven’t seen one for the 5008.)

 

Torn perfs: Clean film gate and check whether the claw looks okay. (When it’s damaged, then usually the damage is visible with the naked eye.)

There are three possible causes:

a) Damaged camera - shoot another test cart or get a CLA done (Pro8mm or DuAll might be able to do this in the US)

b) Damaged cart - from time to time, Kodak produces faulty carts . The film jams, the claw is hitting the area around the perforation holes, damaging the film.

c) Film - either old and brittle or not stable enough for your camera. (I really like Fomapan R100, but it’s much easier to tear apart or to crinkle it than all other materials.)

 

Good luck!

 

 

Edited February 18 by Joerg Polzfusz

[Eric Eader]

Hello,

You don't mention what type of lenses -- Super 8 or 16/35mm -- you will be mounting.

Lens size appears to mandate a "custom" mattebox/follow focus set-up.

Do you require "Quick Release?"   Again, custom design.  Done right you could just leave it mounted and hand hold without breaking it down.  Semi permanent rig. Custom "GO" bag or box.

As designed/commonly used, tripod/handheld, the camera presents no problems except for angling the lens at subject.  (With the head pointed earthward).

The hidden problem is torque applied while follow focusing will almost certainly twist the body because it is not solid enough to resist it.  (Base -- tripod mount area really flimsy). To test: lock it to tripod, grip top and gently move hand).  (Not an Arri-S or CP-16R).

Hence the need for "twin towers" aft of lens mount beside focal plane line.  Integrated with 15mm rods base.

The on/off -- run switch is in the hand grip area.... I had a remote switch but don't remember whether it worked only on my Canon Super 8, or both cameras.

Without battery, the grip is sloppy/messy; and because of the viewfinder other batts won't fit back there.

Two Hundred Foot Mag prevents battery shelf on top of camera. So cable to off-camera batt from grip. Maybe.

Sorry if this reply seems too long, but my rig as described in previous post worked nicely. 

It has since occurred to me that maybe the machinist was a couple of seconds or minutes off in alignment of angled block and rods but not so one would notice just by looking at it, and that caused the body to twist.

So..... maybe your mileage will vary.

One last thing, a 5008-S is not a quiet camera.  "Can't forget the Soundman."

My advice, since you are in L.A. is check in with Panavision. If like Clairmont was, they're too busy, they may know someone who is good enough and not quite as busy,  and point out other pitfalls not so obvious.

Just some musings from an "old geezer."

Best of luck with your project.

 

[Eric Eader]

Adrian,

 I had a major brain fade.

The "twin towers" I describe allowed room for all the camera controls and had fingers/nubs that pressed against the flat points on both sides to prevent flexing.

I used a hand-carved "Magic Rub" eraser to press the on-switch bottom of hand grip and a cable release on front trigger for start and stop. I'm sure there is a more professional way to do this.

The flex point is where the grip casting meets the camera body at the bottom.

My apologies for any confusion caused.

 

[Eric Eader]

Adrian,

The 5008 is not a sync-sound camera.

The motor speed may fluctuate causing loss of sync during shot.

I don't believe the later crystal sync models solved the motor drift problem either.

My "twin towers" approach is not the only way to solve the very real problem of body flexing while follow focusing.

You might want to reach out to the news crew that aired a news segment filmed entirely on Super-8 (about Super 8), to determine what, if any, sync problems they had.

Other than that, rigging a mattebox and follow focus can be done, but not completely from "off the shelf" stuff.

Best of luck with the project.