How to test for jitter and flutter?

[Johnny Liu]

Hi, I am trying to learn to service some of my own Super 8 and Regular 8 cameras myself.  But, after servicing, I would like some way to be able to test how film runs through the camera. More specifically, I would like to have some way to test if the film transport/claw action is smooth and there is no jittering or fluttering in the exposed image.  Running an actual cartridge or Super 8 film or a roll of Double 8mm film is expensive to perform this kind of test.  Does anyone know of any other kind of device or technique I can use to test this instead of spending the money and sacrificing a Super 8 cartridge or roll of Double 8mm film to test this?

[Simon Wyss]

You can buy polyester leader or poly-base film stocks. I use PETP-base black-and-white print film that I run through a camera in order to observe the action. Not only does polyester keep dimensions but it behaves better than acetate stock, less to no kinking around the holes.

For a Super-8 camera you would need a transparent or a cut-away cartridge with a transparent pressure plate.

If I can give you a hint, service Double-Super 8 cameras. These are much more rewarding than the Super-8 plastic throw-away-mentality muck.

[Johnny Liu]

Thanks for your response.  So, you actually use a black and white film stock to run your test?  That is, you get it developed too?

Edited October 21, 2025 by Johnny Liu

[Simon Wyss]

No, my friend, I look at the running film closely with my eyes. Admittedly I am short-sighted.

[Dom Jaeger]

Super 8 is not an easy format to check transport, unlike all other gauges where you can manually inch some dummy stock through and observe it. You would need a test cartridge modified as Simon described. Or perhaps you could cut up a cart and use just the pressure plate part, which (despite the name) does not actually press on the film but creates a channel a few hundredths of a mm larger than the film thickness. Many Super 8 cameras don’t have the facility to manually inch them on either. 

Steadiness (jitter) is ultimately something only a film test - or more accurately a steady test - can check. You can check for claw play or wear to the tip, functioning of the spring holding the claw, observe it running with a strobe, and check whether the spring tabs on the side are holding the film steady laterally, but ultimately a film test is the only true test, for any film gauge. It’s probably not feasible to do a proper steady test with Super 8, since it requires double exposure and rewinding carts is not very easy, so you’d probably need to just view some footage shot on a tripod or otherwise held firmly. 

The take-up tension plays an important role, since it can introduce vertical instability if it’s too strong or too weak. The take up needs to slip as more film is wound on and during the period when the film is stationary in the gate, but not slip so easily that the film is not wound on enough to cause it bunching. A little pin inside the cartridge and the side tabs in the gate supply enough friction to prevent the film being pulled until the claw has moved another frame forward. Some Super 8 repair manuals might give a torque figure for the take up clutch, which then needs a tool to measure. But you can probably learn to feel if the slip tension is about right (though it’s hard with Super 8 as the take up is a metal prong thingy that hurts to hold). 

The other crucial setting is flange depth, which needs to be quite exact since zooms will lose focus as you change focal length if there is even a few hundredths of a mm error. Normally this is factory set and shouldn’t change with a fixed zoom, but removing internal filters or just the act of disassembly can shift it. To measure it requires access to a collimator. 

Standard 8 (or double S8) cameras are generally much easier to work on and check, but there is far more variety in cameras and mechanisms. Personally I don’t work on Super 8 cameras anymore because of the difficulties involved and the fact that they generally weren’t designed to be serviced. 

[Johnny Liu]

Dom,

Thanks for the well thought out and extensive reply.  It's helpful because now at least I know the limits and difficulties of what I want to do!

[Tyler Purcell]

Super 8 specifically is a nightmare to deal with because there is no direct access to the film like 8mm or dual 8. Cutting a cartridge apart also exacerbates the issue because they really don't like to be manipulated. We made a little jig that allows us to push film against the pressure plate properly but also see how the pulldown interfaces with the film. It doesn't really help with anything but understanding if the pulldown is properly re-constructed and running right (which is a problem with the Beaulieu's that we service). 

Honestly, due to the poor quality of modern super 8 cartridges, (which Kodak is fixing evidently) I don't think there is much you can do outside of adjusting the take up tension which will truly make much of a difference on the majority of super 8 cameras. I have tried a lot of little things and frankly, I'm always thwarted due to the cartridge inconsistencies. On most super 8, 8mm and all dual 8 cameras I know of, they have a beam splitter reflex system, which is more challenging to calibrate, especially with fixed lenses. This is why I stopped using those cameras and moved over to the Beaulieu's, because at least they have a standard mirror shutter, standard ground glass and standard C mount, which interfaces with tooling properly. It's way easier to understand where you're at with a standard Beaulieu than let's say any camera with an integrated lens. 

Unfortunately there really isn't way to test without running film in a super 8 camera especially. Once you get the camera dialed mechanically, ya gotta run a cartridge. I always prep the carts by pulling some film out and pushing it back in again, this helps break the stiction and creates an upper and lower loop. I never advance the cart by the wheel either, leave that alone. You want there to be no tension on the rollers inside the cart which help create the loops. A properly setup camera takeup, won't yank on the film hard, which is one of the reasons you get a jittery image. Unfortunately because these are all old cameras, those clutch assembles even if adjusted properly, can fall out of adjustment very fast. I have re-done mine several times as Beaulieu parts are hard to get a hold of, so we will probably need to make our own replacement parts down the road. 

In the end, I actually gave up shooting super 8 entirely. I feel the results don't merit the cost. I sold most of my super 8 cameras and purchased a Beaulieu 2016, a very nice, quartz (crystal sync) 16mm camera with integrated meter and 200ft load capability. It's smaller, lighter than a Bolex and has a beautiful very bright mirror reflex viewfinder, something Bolex's simply do not have. 16mm cost at 24fps per finished minute of film, is only a few dollars more than super 8 and the image you get is far better, PLUS the cameras are WAY easier to work on, no contest. Getting a 16mm camera tuned up is a cinch compared to a Super 8 honestly. 

[Johnny Liu]

Tyler,

Thanks for the well thought out and insightful response.  I am getting a better picture now of the limitations of these machines and I guess, the only way to really test for jitter is to run a roll of film through it and get it developed.  I suppose I will use B&W film to lower costs on that.

I have read your posts before and did see a Beaulieu 2016 Quartz on EBay a few months ago - and actually, just checked again - and it is still on EBay.  If I had an extra $4000 laying around I would buy it.  It looks great!

[Mark Dunn]

3 hours ago, Johnny Liu said:

it is still on EBay. 

Probably because it's waaay overpriced.

[Tyler Purcell]

7 hours ago, Johnny Liu said:

I have read your posts before and did see a Beaulieu 2016 Quartz on EBay a few months ago - and actually, just checked again - and it is still on EBay.  If I had an extra $4000 laying around I would buy it.  It looks great!

There are a few of them available right now, but they generally sell quick if priced properly. $4k is way too much money. 

[Johnny Liu]

Tyler, thanks for letting me know that $4,000 is overpriced for this

[Simon Wyss]

Add one grand and you get a LOGMAR, if there’s one available somewhere. Miles apart from the latest Kodak Super-8 camera, at least mechanically. Register pin, free loops

 

[Giray Izcan]

At the endnof the day, no matter what camera you get, it will be super 8 and the image quality can only be pushed so far.. 4k could get you an Eclair camera that you can shoot sync sound with, on 16mm.. super 8 and 16mm more or less cost the same money, maybe 16 might be a few dollars more but the for those extra few dollars, you get a rock steady, boradcast ready image

Edited December 30, 2025 by Giray Izcan

[Johnny Liu]

Simon,

Yes, I remember the Logmar camera from a few years ago.  Too bad, they stopped making it!

[Johnny Liu]

Giray,

Yes, at the end of the day, what you are saying is true and makes sense.  But, really, anyone who still prefers 8mm doesn't necessarily have a lot of sense!  Hahaha!

[Giray Izcan]

Fair enough haha. Happy shooting