New to me Eclair ACL II

[Vincent Wolfram]

Through a lucky find on a german classifieds page ill be picking up an Eclair ACL tomorow.
From the very limited pictures i have so far, it seems to be a package containing
Eclair ACL II body
Kinoptic Viewfinder
Motor with shutter parking
122m mag
Eclair C to Arri Std adapter
Angineux zoom lens, probably 12-120mm
and a manual
 

Since its costing me comparably very little money i will try to learn how to work on these cameras myself. I've been reading a lot about them and am very intrigued by their design! 
Especially the osczillating mirror is incredibly fascinating.


I will update this thread over the next weeks with more detailed pictures

[Aapo Lettinen]

looks like a good kit. hopefully it works fine!

the camera body is indeed relatively easy to diy service, it is simpler than the magazine I think. And not too difficult to open for basic cla. If the mechanism is stiff, check the vertical axle which drives the shutter disc as it causes tons of friction if the lubricants dried up. And rotate the mechanism manually before switching on any power the first time you get it to check that the mirror swing works as it should, the mirror linking rod is the weak part of this camera model and if it has disengaged or has other issue then you don't want to run it at all before the rod is repaired to avoid further damaging it.

The original motor is good if it works. IF it for some reason DOES NOT work and it is not something really obvious like a single blown capacitor or two or broken contact etc then it may not be worth it to repair it as that can be really difficult even for a pro tech and there is no guarantee it would not blow up again the next month.

if the motor does not work then then cheapest replacement is my 4-speed universal motor with ACL mounting kit. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

I am working on a 15mm baseplate for the ACL btw, if you have use for one will probably have them available for order in February-March approximately. similar approach than on my Konvas rods plate: just basic features and really sturdy and having extra mounting points for rigging

[Phillip Mosness]

The ACL and especially the ACL II like above is such a great camera design. It has so many great features. It's one of the few cameras that has a mirror reflex and can still take C-mount lenses.

With a 200' mag and prime lens, they're almost as compact as an A-Minima for a fraction of the cost. 

Plus the mags can take 100' loads with ease(unlike my Aaton)

They're great candidates for Super 16 conversions.

If one were to design a modern 16mm I think the ACL would be a good place to start. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

2 hours ago, Phillip Mosness said:

The ACL and especially the ACL II like above is such a great camera design. It has so many great features. It's one of the few cameras that has a mirror reflex and can still take C-mount lenses.

With a 200' mag and prime lens, they're almost as compact as an A-Minima for a fraction of the cost. 

Plus the mags can take 100' loads with ease(unlike my Aaton)

They're great candidates for Super 16 conversions.

If one were to design a modern 16mm I think the ACL would be a good place to start. 

Yes it is about 1/10th of the price of Aminima. But the weight difference is just ridiculous. Aminima is like a video camera, it does not feel like a film camera, so lightweight. 

Acl can use daylight spools nicely on feed side but takeup works much more reliably with a core. Would not use spool on takeup.

Aminima will work really well with 100ft daylight spools once my newly made magazine is finished

[Gregg MacPherson]

7 hours ago, Vincent Wolfram said:

......i will try to learn how to work on these cameras myself. I've been reading a lot about them and am very intrigued by their design! .....Especially the osczillating mirror is incredibly fascinating.
 

To look at, quite good in the photo, may be a lucky find. I am a great fan of the ACL,and used one all the time in the 80s. The oscillating mirror design has some huge advantages. The ficker in the view finder is more noticeable than that of the spinning mirror cameras, but you easily get used to it.

DIY servicing is not something to consider lightly. The ACLs simplicity hides a lot of sophistication. You would need some experience or talent with precise tinkering and would need advice, mentoring from a tech experienced with ACL. You would need access to some common tools like for the FFD and the autocollimation for the view finder. You can gather most of the information you need, but I never found a service manual. If you find one, let people know.

So in my opinion, If you had some talent and expert advice you might proceed with the simpler things, with extreme caution....There is no excuse to ruin a perfectly good camera, just because it was cheap to buy.

Gregg.

[Aapo Lettinen]

The main advantage of the acl is the small size of the camera body itself. The 400ft mag is about same than any other 400ft camera mag, no size or weight benefits there.

Npr has c-mount with real spinning mirror with 180 degree shutter and adjustable angle too. Size much larger, weights more. Acl like the basic handheld camera system and npr is the workhorse tripod camera. Personally I think I will sell my acl when the 20speed motor is finished and keep the npr because I can use the npr handheld with my newer compact motors and can always use the aaton ltr if not needing variable shutter

[Gregg MacPherson]

A redesigned,  composite bodied 400' mag for ACL could be amazing. Bringing the weight right down, and allowing an ergonomic form similar to the Aaton (see below for drawing with aaton mag silhouet superimposed on ACL.  EDIT: The superimposition was done by aligning the mags to the same optical axis..I assume one could use almost all the mechanical hardware from an ACL  mag.  If building the body and doors with molded composite then it might be useful to have the doors identical outer form to the Aaton.

Trying to shift the camera lower on the shoulder might entail mods to the motor form and viewfinder configuration. I don't have an ACL 2 here anymore,  otherwise a quick mock up might tell whether the big Kinoptic or Ang. viewfinders could reach high enough as is.

Does the ACL 1.5 have a shorter length base than the ACL 2? The ACL 2 base is a little long, and in the possible Aaton like configurations, is pushing the camera forwards.

Edited December 17, 2025 by Gregg MacPherson
add text

[Gregg MacPherson]

The same superimposition but with an approximation of the ACL 1.5 base...

 

So the Aaton style mag would need to shift down and to the rear...The camera below is sitting about 31mm lower on the shoulder. The VF may not comfortably allow this. Maybe a change in the form of the base is a way to exploit the opportunities.

In the second drawing, the CoG is lower,  the moment of inertia is increased and the form is well nested on the shoulder. So should feel very stable, like an Aaton. Edit: The moment of inertia is increased by shifting the bulk, spools rearward, but is reduced if using lighter materials..

I don't (think) it's a commercially viable project for anyone, but could be a lot of fun. Using ACL mechanical components and making most of the body with composites.

Gregg.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2025 by Gregg MacPherson
more words.

[Aapo Lettinen]

3 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

The same superimposition but with an approximation of the ACL 1.5 base...

 

So the Aaton style mag would need to shift down and to the rear...The camera below is sitting about 31mm lower on the shoulder. The VF may not comfortably allow this. Maybe a change in the form of the base is a way to exploit the opportunities.

In the second drawing, the CoG is lower,  the moment of inertia is increased and the form is well nested on the shoulder. So should feel very stable, like an Aaton.

I don't it's a commercially viable project for anyone, but could be a lot of fun. Using ACL mechanical components and making most of the body with composites.

Gregg.

 

 

Probably possible if using the film transport parts and pressure plate and guides from the original ACL magazine as-is and only making the outer casing new. 

some polished film channel guides would need to be made new to pass the film to the right side from feed. Maybe a roller or two. One would remove the film transport plate from the original ACL mag and install to the new mag. The takeup "spring belt" would need to be a tiny bit longer I think and one probably needs one more guide roller for the spring belt to guide it properly to the takeup axle which is slightly farther away and at different angle than on the original ACL mag.

would carbon composite 3d printing work for the mag body? 

ACL has much worse viewfinder system than even the oldest LTR has. Very big difference. and sound levels, other features etc very different too. But if the new shoulder mag could be affordable enough then it could still be very good camera system for budget users and has the advantage of being affordable to CLA and modify compared to Aatons and Arris

[Gregg MacPherson]

I assumed using almost all the ACL mag hardware.I should have mentioned that earlier. I added (edited) to my earlier post.

When you say 3D printed carbon composite do you mean that your spooled filament or resin contains tiny, short carbon fibres? Or are you talking about continuous fibres in the filament or resin? If I was building it for fun I would probably use a manual wet layup with kevlar or carbon/kevlar hybrid weave, because I am familiar with those materials, and the design and engineering for them..

But 3d printing sounds like a really interesting opportunity, if one has the skills and the right tools. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

15 minutes ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

I assumed using almost all the ACL mag hardware.I should have mentioned that earlier. I added (edited) to my earlier post.

When you say 3D printed carbon composite do you mean that your spooled filament or resin contains tiny, short carbon fibres? Or are you talking about continuous fibres in the filament or resin? If I was building it for fun I would probably use a manual wet layup with kevlar or carbon/kevlar hybrid weave, because I am familiar with those materials, and the design and engineering for them..

But 3d printing sounds like a really interesting opportunity, if one has the skills and the right tools. 

I was assuming one would try filament with added small fibre pieces to strenghten it. But if you could use proper layered fibre cloth "real traditional carbon fibre" then would surely be much better result.

You could 3d print the mould and then manually make the composite using that?

On some smaller or complex parts the 3d printing probably would be better and easier but the big surfaces could use more reinforcement for sure

[Gregg MacPherson]

There are some compelling advantages in using the filament 3D print. A lot of features could be designed in that would need post finishing or mods to achieve in a woven composite part, and it could be much cheaper, quicker and more convenient to prototype. 

One may not need the strength and stiffness of the woven composite. If one can come up with scenarios (load cases) that define those requirements (strength and stiffness of the parts), one can choose the materials and method of manufacture in a rational way. If one can't then one might just try something easy and test it, bend and break it.

Carbon fibre is very stiff and strong, but is not very damage tolerant, and the damage can be hard to detect. 

Yes, you could make moulds with the printer. The surface may be rough or wavey, so the parts would need post finishing, but there still may be compelling advantages, being easy and cheap...

Edited December 17, 2025 by Gregg MacPherson
more words.

[Aapo Lettinen]

2 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

There are some compelling advantages in using the filament 3D print. A lot of features could be designed in that would need post finishing or mods to achieve in a woven composite part, and it could be much cheaper, quicker and more convenient to prototype. 

One may not need the strength and stiffness of the woven composite. If one can come up with scenarios (load cases) that define those requirements (strength and stiffness of the parts), one can choose the materials and method of manufacture in a rational way. If one can't then one might just try something easy and test it, bend and break it.

Carbon fibre is very stiff and strong, but is not very damage tolerant, and the damage can be hard to detect. 

Yes, you could make moulds with the printer. The surface may be rough or wavey, so the parts would need post finishing, but there still may be compelling advantages, being easy and cheap...

I think the biggest challenge would be the edge of the film chambers on spots which typically take damage from rough handling. And of course the doors.

One option would be to cnc machine or  metal 3d print the aluminium "skeleton" which has the most vulnerable edges and other easily damaged points  reinforced with aluminium, and the screw holes for parts mounting. The door latches positions etc in metal. Then the rest of the structure is made on top of the skeleton with woven carbon fibre structure and 3d printed parts where applicable.

The metal skeleton would not add that much weight because it is thin and hollow with only mounting thread points and reinforcements made out of metal. Everything else is composite materials.

You would potentially get better dimensional stability too. And protect the carbon fibre from cracks.

One should be able to 3d print titanium but surely a tad expensive. Less so than cnc machining it so could be an option if you find a place doing it for less-than-insane price

[Geffen Avraham]

I would just use SLS to fabricate this. Much more solid than FDM prints.

 

there are some very good SLS carbon fiber materials. Will deliver a professional finish

[Vincent Wolfram]

Interesting discussion! i must say i quite like the formfactor of the ACL with a 200ft mag. 
The seller was a woman who was trying to get rid of her dads collection of things that got from working at a public tv station. kind of sad to know that it'll likely happen to my things eventually as well... 

I havent had time to test the camera yet as my lab power supply is not yet set up in my new apartment, ill be sure to update this thread when i do!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/k1X7FLj.jpeg[/img]

The motor has two settings label with letters instead of fps speeds, which one is for the quarz speed? E or N?
My manual only covers the earlier motors.

 

Does anyone know what this disk/cover is for? it seems i can turn it by hand, but it doesnt seem to unscrew, has no markings?
 

[Aapo Lettinen]

On my camera and one of Heikki's cameras that disc was not connected to anything. It just had a locking washer on its axle to keep it in place. Maybe it has some purpose on some model of acl and they just added empty disc for others to fill the hole. 

The shape and placement could work for film speed selector for exposure meter but not sure because never seen it actually used

Edited December 19, 2025 by Aapo Lettinen

[Steven Jackson]

1 hour ago, Vincent Wolfram said:

Interesting discussion! i must say i quite like the formfactor of the ACL with a 200ft mag. 
The seller was a woman who was trying to get rid of her dads collection of things that got from working at a public tv station. kind of sad to know that it'll likely happen to my things eventually as well... 

I havent had time to test the camera yet as my lab power supply is not yet set up in my new apartment, ill be sure to update this thread when i do!

[img]https://i.imgur.com/k1X7FLj.jpeg[/img]

The motor has two settings label with letters instead of fps speeds, which one is for the quarz speed? E or N?
My manual only covers the earlier motors.

 

Does anyone know what this disk/cover is for? it seems i can turn it by hand, but it doesnt seem to unscrew, has no markings?
 

That was a thumb wheel for regulating the light meter, but your camera evidently does not have one so it has been blanked off.

[Vincent Wolfram]

37 minutes ago, Steven Jackson said:

That was a thumb wheel for regulating the light meter, but your camera evidently does not have one so it has been blanked off.

Interesting! it is was what i suspected as well. Thank you

for the 200ft magazine: i read it needs emulsion-side-out film stock. Can i rewind regular fresh kodak stock "inside out" for that? will the perforations land on the right side? ive only ever dealt with arri 16mm magazines  

[Steven Jackson]

No need to. Should be covered in the manual but you can load a feed reel to off spool from above or below 

[Steven Jackson]

PS.  It will take up emulsion out

[Vincent Wolfram]

2 hours ago, Steven Jackson said:

No need to. Should be covered in the manual but you can load a feed reel to off spool from above or below 

Thank you, i figured it out. Ill test the whole camera soon and report back

[Gregg MacPherson]

You guys are confusing me. I thought all my ACL mags,  we loaded standard emulsion in single perf.  The labs were fine getting exposed stock emulsion out, but we always clearly labeled that as such.

I'm just trying to think what scenario might exist where you ended up with raw camera stock with emulsion out and edge numbers in correct sequence. Do edge numbers not mater any more? Is frame reference just to the digital scan...?

[Vincent Wolfram]

The so called "ergonomic" handgrip really doesnt fit me well. thinking of converting the side mount to a more usable standard arri mount. 
 

1 hour ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

You guys are confusing me. I thought all my ACL mags,  we loaded standard emulsion in single perf.  The labs were fine getting exposed stock emulsion out, but we always clearly labeled that as such.

My manual shows a load of film with emulsion outside being loaded into the 200ft mag. Thats where my confusion is coming from.

[Gregg MacPherson]

1 hour ago, Vincent Wolfram said:

The so called "ergonomic" handgrip really doesnt fit me well. thinking of converting the side mount to a more usable standard arri mount. 

I'm not so fond now of handle ideas that are very close to the camera and have your arms kind of locked in near your body. You can achieve steadiness that way but it is more stressful. With hands lower down and further out you can still snug your elbows to your torso.

If one is needing a rod base for ACL, then some rossetts can be mounted onto that and cheap chinese handles with extensions will do what I am suggesting. You would need to get one of the little Lomo plug connectors and make a cable to a switch you would mount on the handle.

This was my version, drawn a while ago...

Some people have just screwed a piece of aluminum plate onto the side of the base plate and mounted the rossette on that. Easier than trying to find an offcut of C section. The Lazypunch man does that with his Aaton base plates..  http://www.lazypunch.de/   

Edit: Mount plates for rossets for the existing ACL rod base plates could be added this way. And it's worth noting that by carefully choosing a Chinese rod clamp, an ACL rod base can be made up with very little machining. You may not need a mill.

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2025 by Gregg MacPherson