ARRIFLEX SR2 HS START PROBLEM

[Bruno Raciti]

Hi everyone, I recently purchased an Arriflex SR2 Highspeed. Before buying it, I had a specialized technician inspect it; the inspection was carried out, and the technician confirmed in writing that everything was working properly.

A week ago, I bought a 12V voltage regulator and tested the camera with three different V-Locks. The camera turned on and showed signs of life; sometimes the test sequence started, but the motor wouldn’t start.

I then went to test different 12V power plates, including one that runs on AC power. The technician managed to start the camera by manually turning the inch knob and then pressing start. In any case, it is extremely noisy, and you can tell it’s struggling.

When I contacted the seller, I received additional videos dated three days before the inspection was performed, in which everything worked perfectly but an original Gold Mount battery was being used. I am now trying to get in touch with the technician who specifically performed the test at the rental shop to ask for further explanation.

Could anyone help me with this? I can privately send videos showing how it operates in both situations. Is it possible that an Arriflex SR2 S16 HS, if modified years ago, would struggle with a standard regulator? Has anyone ever experienced something like this?

Thank you very much

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

Yes regulators can do anything and would be the most likely culprit. High starting current of the camera can cause sudden unexpected voltage drop or trigger a safety mechanism or literally anything.

Test it with a native 12v battery, for example a gel or agm battery. Those can supply enough current for any possible spikes and provide stable voltage for testing. 

If you have an oscilloscope it is pretty easy what kind of issue the regulator output has but without proper tools it is only guesses and theories

[Tyler Purcell]

It could be the regulator, but it only needs 1A to start, so unless it's a really bad regular it's not that. I've started one with 10v before on a dead battery, they don't need much to get going without film. 

Typically, when I see this, it's the brush to armature interface being dirty or worn. Sometimes I can resurrect them by taking them apart, cleaning out the buildup from the worn brushes and putting back together again. The SR1/2 motors need to be cut to get them apart, we built a special jig to prevent them from being damaged. I've been successful at resurrecting them when the armatures have SOME life left, but getting new motors is nearly impossible. I've even ordered some from the OEM manufacturer which meet the same as Arri's original spec, but the new ones are slightly different so the parts don't fit and the shafts aren't cut. Arri ordered a special version sadly. 

So yea, if you get nowhere with the starting, hit me up and we can discuss the service. 

Here is a video I explain it: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zowpi43i93p0cit9rsczy/IMG_0880.MOV?rlkey=sej6inmfv0v1rlbdd5kanobgj&dl=0

 

Edited May 24 by Tyler Purcell

[Dom Jaeger]

First thing I would suggest is testing it with a power supply or regular 12V battery.

Does the movement feel tight manually inching it? Did the technician check the belt at all?

Usually this sort of fault, if the power is OK, tends to be the motor, but it's a bit odd that it worked fine before. 

Your best bet for EU Arriflex service is probably Danny at Cine Facilities.

 

[Bruno Raciti]

Thanks everybody for the replies.

Looking to test with original 12v sr battery next week. Meanwhile, as written, I tested it with 2 different 12v regulators and with a regulator that went directly into power supply. Nothing changed. 

I attach a video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GgE2iYDjpf_jcvB76RrSRNZSNANjvXJC/view?usp=sharing

[Bruno Raciti]

14 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

First thing I would suggest is testing it with a power supply or regular 12V battery.

Does the movement feel tight manually inching it? Did the technician check the belt at all?

Usually this sort of fault, if the power is OK, tends to be the motor, but it's a bit odd that it worked fine before. 

Your best bet for EU Arriflex service is probably Danny at Cine Facilities.

 

this is how the motor looks like if inched manually: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kByzKcvwbvh7RnDgIzIcH0RNy2Tr3T1P/view?usp=sharing

[Tyler Purcell]

1 hour ago, Bruno Raciti said:

this is how the motor looks like if inched manually: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kByzKcvwbvh7RnDgIzIcH0RNy2Tr3T1P/view?usp=sharing

Dang, that's not good. Sounds like something is tapping inside the movement. Usually the motors don't make tapping noise when you spin them, even if they're bad. Also a bad belt would be consistent, not make a tapping noise. It does absolutely seem stiff. The electronics are pretty fragile, so I would not try to run this until you can get it off and get serviced. 

So the motor could be good now that we have diagnosed the movement has an issue. 

[Bruno Raciti]

16 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Dang, that's not good. Sounds like something is tapping inside the movement. Usually the motors don't make tapping noise when you spin them, even if they're bad. Also a bad belt would be consistent, not make a tapping noise. It does absolutely seem stiff. The electronics are pretty fragile, so I would not try to run this until you can get it off and get serviced. 

So the motor could be good now that we have diagnosed the movement has an issue. 

Thanks Tyler, I really appreciate!

Also this is the video the owner sent me before sending the camera for having a check:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZbKgLDEjB44b-DRVT9iSaaP5yMYLv1rl/view?usp=sharing

I am trying to get in touch with the technician who did the job. One thing I know is that he removed the motor for inspection: could something have gone wrong when he put it back? Before doing a test with the 12v regulator I just checked manually the camera and dummy-loaded it to practise because I didn't have any battery: honestly I always remember this noise since the day one.

Edited May 25 by Bruno Raciti

[Bruno Raciti]

****he probably have been removed the motor or some parts for inspection (i am not sure 100% , need to ask the technician)

[Tyler Purcell]

4 hours ago, Bruno Raciti said:

I am trying to get in touch with the technician who did the job. One thing I know is that he removed the motor for inspection: could something have gone wrong when he put it back?

Yea, it's pretty easy to re-assemble wrong. Especially with what screws go where. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

4 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Dang, that's not good. Sounds like something is tapping inside the movement. Usually the motors don't make tapping noise when you spin them, even if they're bad. Also a bad belt would be consistent, not make a tapping noise. It does absolutely seem stiff. The electronics are pretty fragile, so I would not try to run this until you can get it off and get serviced. 

So the motor could be good now that we have diagnosed the movement has an issue. 

yes sounds really bad indeed!  And definitely sounds something is very wrong with the movement and not a good idea to run it at all or even inch manually, better to send to technician right away. It's been really long time since I have used SR cameras but does the reg pin seem to come out a bit much or is it supposed to be like that on HS sr? If it is misaligned it would explain the hammering noise. 

Probably it was just put together wrong and something is misaligned as difficult to imagine it working decades and then suddenly starting to sound like that out of the blue. Has to have something to do with the reassembly after checkup. 

A broken carbon brush should make pretty different sound, more like clicking and scratching instead of heavy hammering. but can be additionally something wrong with the brushes too, they are the weakest link in motor systems using them. One would need to open the camera anyway so they can check the motor again when first solving the movement issue. 

[Dom Jaeger]

6 hours ago, Bruno Raciti said:

this is how the motor looks like if inched manually: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kByzKcvwbvh7RnDgIzIcH0RNy2Tr3T1P/view?usp=sharing

So the movement seems free, but it's making a clicking noise. I've come across that if the belt is misaligned or damaged and rubbing on something, or if part of the movement or the mirror edge is clipping something. But given the ease you can spin the inching knob that shouldn't be stopping the camera from running - that's not a tight movement. So something else is wrong I think. 

I would just send it to a tech to inspect, someone experienced could diagnose the issue pretty quickly I suspect. Otherwise you're just getting speculation instead of advice.

I would also be quizzing the tech who "removed the motor" for inspection, as that's not normally something you would do when simply checking over a camera, unless they suspected a motor fault. They may have taken off the front to check the belt condition, but I'd be surprised if they removed the motor.

You can also try Andy Taylor at Arri Rental London or Richard Hester at Arri London if Danny is too busy. Or Daniil Nevsky, also London.

[Bruno Raciti]

Thank you all so much again. I’ll definitely have to send it to the technical service, but unfortunately the waiting time is quite long, so I’m taking this opportunity to gather further clues and information, without expecting to be able to solve the problem from my computer.

So, based on this information, do you rule out a phase issue? I’ve received a reply from the rental company that carried out the check, telling me that the camera wasn’t taken apart, but was simply tested with and without the magazine and film inside.

Is it normal for the inside of my 12V adapter to look like this after being used just once? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L-mcrlNo_rNPYwtgRgCfM9s60Ags6FUc/view?usp=sharing

Do you notice anything strange? thanks

[Tyler Purcell]

5 hours ago, Bruno Raciti said:

Thank you all so much again. I’ll definitely have to send it to the technical service, but unfortunately the waiting time is quite long, so I’m taking this opportunity to gather further clues and information, without expecting to be able to solve the problem from my computer.

If you wanna try sending it to us in the states, we can get to it right away. SR's are pretty straight forward, so we prioritize getting things that take less time out the door vs longer project cameras. 

5 hours ago, Bruno Raciti said:

So, based on this information, do you rule out a phase issue? I’ve received a reply from the rental company that carried out the check, telling me that the camera wasn’t taken apart, but was simply tested with and without the magazine and film inside.

I had an SR that came to me recently with a similar ticking noise. The user had added a cheese plate bracket to the rosette on the side. The screws that came with the bracket were all too long and one of them was pushing the cable against the motor shaft and making a ticking noise. There isn't a lot of room in there between the motor and the side of the housing and even worse, there is a flexible flat cable there which can be damaged. So if the camera ran in their hands but has this issue now, I would take a look at that rosette and make sure there isn't anything weird about it. You can take the screws off too, see if the sound goes away. 

The ticking is so fast, it has to be something connected to the movement. 

5 hours ago, Bruno Raciti said:

Is it normal for the inside of my 12V adapter to look like this after being used just once? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L-mcrlNo_rNPYwtgRgCfM9s60Ags6FUc/view?usp=sharing

Do you notice anything strange? thanks

Sometimes the battery plates are made from dead batteries, so it could be one of those cases. It could just be a used part and it has some rust on it still. 

[Dom Jaeger]

15 hours ago, Bruno Raciti said:

Thank you all so much again. I’ll definitely have to send it to the technical service, but unfortunately the waiting time is quite long, so I’m taking this opportunity to gather further clues and information, without expecting to be able to solve the problem from my computer.

So, based on this information, do you rule out a phase issue? I’ve received a reply from the rental company that carried out the check, telling me that the camera wasn’t taken apart, but was simply tested with and without the magazine and film inside.

Is it normal for the inside of my 12V adapter to look like this after being used just once? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L-mcrlNo_rNPYwtgRgCfM9s60Ags6FUc/view?usp=sharing

Do you notice anything strange? thanks

Who have you contacted about waiting times?  I forgot to mention you have Luca Bonicalza from Goodsock Vision there in Milan, who is a great tech. Works on Arris, makes 65mm cameras.

The adapter plug looks a bit corroded, but it should clean up. If this happened since you got it, then some moisture got in there. Check the mating part. I would put some drops of corrosion inhibitor like CRC 2-26 on the plug and work it back and forth in the socket. 

[Bruno Raciti]

6 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Who have you contacted about waiting times?  I forgot to mention you have Luca Bonicalza from Goodsock Vision there in Milan, who is a great tech. Works on Arris, makes 65mm cameras.

The adapter plug looks a bit corroded, but it should clean up. If this happened since you got it, then some moisture got in there. Check the mating part. I would put some drops of corrosion inhibitor like CRC 2-26 on the plug and work it back and forth in the socket. 

Yeah I'm waiting for Luca :)