Logan Harmon Posted June 14 Posted June 14 (edited) I’m planning to get a tape film splicer so that I can splice leaders/trailers onto eyemo film rolls to let me load them in daylight and not waste any film. I’m currently looking at a Strong SP35 splicer, a bit more expensive right now but looks pretty clean, or a Neutaper, cheaper but looks like it might have some rust on some of the moving parts. I’d be curious to hear the opinions of people who do this for a living before I buy one. Edited June 14 by Logan Harmon
Brian Drysdale Posted June 14 Posted June 14 That looks like a tape splicer for joining processed film prints, rather than raw stock. The first few feet of film on the head and tail on a daylight loading roll is to protect the usable section from exposure. Even on rolls that require a changing bag to load into a magazine, you allow a few feet at the head and tail for the lab, to avoid damaging the actual images.
Brandon Paterno Posted June 14 Posted June 14 neutapers are solid. Perhaps not the one you're seeing. check that the blades themselves are parallel. Check that the perf holes have little to no marring around the edges. is there resistance when "perforating" with the dies? I think neutaper is still around and still sells parts. Lots of options though. Cir splicers are goated but expensive not that you're shooting onto the prints but the perforations are a bit different. For practicing loading it should be okay. If you're trying to make a 100 foot dummy load it might get funky
Mark Dunn Posted June 14 Posted June 14 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Brandon Paterno said: goated ? I'm not convinced that you could rely on a splice to go through the mechanism without risking losing the loop. A splicer can cut into the perf and leave behind the sticky chads- you can't check for them in the dark. 100' loads have an allowance of a few feet either end for loading/unloading. I could be wrong, but I don't think splicing tape is resistant to processing chemicals. I think there's a good reason why lengths of raw stock are stapled for processing and not spliced. Edited June 14 by Mark Dunn
Fabian Schreyer Posted June 14 Posted June 14 Tape splices are only for film that is being projected. If you do your own development that might not be an issue if you are willing to take the risk. But please do not send in film with tape splices for professional processing.
Brandon Paterno Posted June 14 Posted June 14 59 minutes ago, Mark Dunn said: ? = excellent oh if you're planning to actually shoot and space out the film with trailers I don't think doing such a thing is worth it. you're going to have issues and its more trouble than its worth. and at the very least you should use actual leader rather than something used, youll be on disaster island if a few of the perfs on whatever trailer roll you get are too stressed. get a nice changing bag or put a towel over a closet door I have never had an issue with tape splicing on a spiral processor, but the spiral processors are perf agnostic. before I bought a splicer I was using scotch tape and it was fine. like fabian said any lab that uses a machine isn't going to be thrilled about tape splices, and will be especially less thrilled if you don't let them know.
Logan Harmon Posted June 15 Author Posted June 15 (edited) OK, for a bit of context that I guess is missing here, I am planning on putting 5 ft of opaque leader/trailer onto the 100 foot rolls of film I am planning to shoot on an Eyemo. I am aware that back in the day when Eyemo loads were common, Kodak would include around 10 feet of extra film meant as an integrated leader/trailer, however, when you’re buying 100 foot loads of cinema film, it is exactly 100 feet now. It’s my understanding that Kodak used to send non-emulsion leaders and trailers on these types of rolls, but that stopped at some point. I was originally planning on loading the camera in the dark, however, the friend that is lending me the camera has told me that it is quite difficult to do that, the loops have to be relatively well formed in order for the camera to work correctly and that’s not very easy in the dark. Yes, I am aware that this splicer probably uses KS-1670 perfs. Unfortunately, there’s not much I can do about this. And yes, I will be letting my lab know that there are tape spices on this film. From my understanding, a well-made tape splice should be fine for processing, it’s my understanding that that’s what they use to make the lab rolls anyway, but yeah, I can understand if they’re not expecting it why they would be annoyed. Worst case I cut the leaders off. Would give me a chance to put it on a cinema core, which I might do anyway in case my spools grow legs. Edited June 15 by Logan Harmon
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted June 15 Premium Member Posted June 15 4 hours ago, Logan Harmon said: From my understanding, a well-made tape splice should be fine for processing, it’s my understanding that that’s what they use to make the lab rolls anyway Wrong understanding Only well made wet splices are allowed, with film cement (solvents to the base). If no splices in exposed stock, better Buy longer rolls and spool down 106 feet portions or use polyester-base stock and black leader that you join with a polyester film splicer. That can be done in darkness.
John Salim Posted June 15 Posted June 15 Some labs do use splicing tape for processing - but that's using special chemical resistant tape. But surely it would be better for Logan to remove any spliced on footage before sending his films off for processing ? John S
Logan Harmon Posted June 15 Author Posted June 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, John Salim said: But surely it would be better for Logan to remove any spliced on footage before sending his films off for processing ? I’ll email the lab and ask, but this is probably what I’ll do anyway. 3 hours ago, Simon Wyss said: Buy longer rolls and spool down 106 feet portions or use polyester-base stock and black leader that you join with a polyester film splicer. That can be done in darkness. You will get 3 110 ft rolls and a 70 ft roll from a 400 ft roll, not exactly ideal. 1,000 ft rolls are out of the question, too expensive and I won’t shoot enough to justify it. This isn’t a camera I’ll regularly use, I am lucky I can borrow from a friend. Might get it for like a month every year, maybe. Edited June 15 by Logan Harmon
Brian Drysdale Posted June 15 Posted June 15 If you're not having and leader at the head or tail, you should inform the lab, otherwise you may lose part of the opening and final shots.
Logan Harmon Posted June 15 Author Posted June 15 1 minute ago, Brian Drysdale said: If you're not having and leader at the head or tail, you should inform the lab, otherwise you may lose part of the opening and final shots. I fully intend to inform the lab about literally everything that I think is even slightly relevant. I really don’t like sending my films off for development. If I had the 35mm reel for my 100 ft spiral tank I’d process it at home.
Brandon Paterno Posted June 15 Posted June 15 what spiral tank do you have? they often permit 35 loading.
Logan Harmon Posted June 15 Author Posted June 15 17 minutes ago, Brandon Paterno said: what spiral tank do you have? they often permit 35 loading. A giant one for 70mm film, uses metal reels and separate tanks for each bath. They make spirals for 35, unfortunately they are just extremely rare. Maybe if I ever find a big enough 3D printer I’ll make one.
Brandon Paterno Posted June 15 Posted June 15 10 minutes ago, Logan Harmon said: A giant one for 70mm film, uses metal reels and separate tanks for each bath. They make spirals for 35, unfortunately they are just extremely rare. Maybe if I ever find a big enough 3D printer I’ll make one. damn that thing is crazy. looks really well made. who manu’d it? it’s nice to see some unusual models !!
Logan Harmon Posted June 15 Author Posted June 15 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Brandon Paterno said: damn that thing is crazy. looks really well made. who manu’d it? it’s nice to see some unusual models !! Made by Nikkor. It’s basically undocumented online, but I do have some literature! Meant for on-site rapid turnaround processing, stuff like high-speed sequence camera footage, and for home cinema processing. They also made smaller versions for stuff like those 250 exposure backs for 35mm a few companies sold. It’s a pretty cool system, just really rare nowadays since they’re big and bulky and most places probably just threw them out. I got mine for a stupid low price because they were going to get thrown out in a darkroom clean. Edited June 15 by Logan Harmon
Joerg Polzfusz Posted June 15 Posted June 15 Please be aware that there are different models for different use cases: Splicers for Film Before Processing Splicer for Negative Film Splicers for Projection and Editing (special Cinemascope-versions or not) Splicers for 35mm magnetic tape Splicers for 35mm microfilms When buying used devices, ensure to buy the correct one. For more information, you might want to check the different variations on https://www.cir-srl.com/splicers/ (They don’t even have all versions. 😉 )
Mark Dunn Posted June 15 Posted June 15 As Brian says, even with your film-saving efforts, your film still has to be attached to the bulk roll for processing somehow, tape or staples. You can't avoid losing some film.
Logan Harmon Posted June 16 Author Posted June 16 11 hours ago, Mark Dunn said: As Brian says, even with your film-saving efforts, your film still has to be attached to the bulk roll for processing somehow, tape or staples. You can't avoid losing some film. A few frames is definitely preferable to a few feet I think
Logan Harmon Posted June 26 Author Posted June 26 (edited) As a follow up to anyone who was wondering, I did buy a splicer, and I also bought a giant roll of 35mm leader. I also received the Eyemo that I am borrowing as well yesterday. I can confirm that a taped splice will run through an Eyemo just fine. 100 ft + 10 ft leader/trailer will also fit on a camera spool. Edited June 26 by Logan Harmon
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted June 27 Premium Member Posted June 27 Suppose you’re having it on a core just to show stock and leader together, yes?
Mark Dunn Posted June 27 Posted June 27 Remember the waterproof tape if you leave it on for processing.
Logan Harmon Posted June 27 Author Posted June 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, Simon Wyss said: Suppose you’re having it on a core just to show stock and leader together, yes? Yeah, that’s just a random dummy roll of B&W I was sent with the camera. Took that picture because it looked neat. 1 hour ago, Mark Dunn said: Remember the waterproof tape if you leave it on for processing. I’m not sure where to buy the stuff that can go through the chems, and IDK if the Jarco tape I have is good in the chems (i suspect not) so I’ll probably just cut the leader/trailer off and tell the lab that’s what I did. I’m going to be rewinding it on a core anyway since I don’t want my spool to go missing, so it will be easy enough to just cut them off then. Edited June 27 by Logan Harmon
Dirk DeJonghe Posted June 27 Posted June 27 As a lab, we inspect every foot of film before running it through any continuous processor. We have seen masking tape, ordinary office tape, etc used to splice broken film together. If the tape splice breaks in the processing machine, there is a good chance that your own film and the film of others may be damaged or lost. We use either heat seal polyester splicing tape (heat + pressure) or chemical resistant tape + staples to do our own preprocess splicing. In all cases inform the lab if you have any damage or splices in your unprocessed footage. 1
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