Giray Izcan Posted July 2 Posted July 2 I just watched Bait. While it is watchable, at best, the film itself does not have much to say. A classic example of format and the process being prioritized over substance, which is maybe ok for a short but is definitely not enough to carry a feature length film. I do not think the hand processed 16mm and dubbing adds anything to the film aside from distraction.
Gautam Valluri Posted July 2 Posted July 2 2 hours ago, Giray Izcan said: I just watched Bait. While it is watchable, at best, the film itself does not have much to say. A classic example of format and the process being prioritized over substance, which is maybe ok for a short but is definitely not enough to carry a feature length film. I do not think the hand processed 16mm and dubbing adds anything to the film aside from distraction. The point of a film like Bait is essentially that. It's an arthouse film.
Giray Izcan Posted July 2 Posted July 2 I appreciate that, but I don't think film artifacts make a film more "artful." The film and its message should carry the weight. 2 2
Jon O'Brien Posted July 2 Author Posted July 2 I've never actually seen any of his films. I'd like to. The hand processing bit doesn't appeal to me, but filming a feature on 16mm, and doing nearly everything yourself --- that sounds interesting.
Giray Izcan Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Jon O'Brien said: I've never actually seen any of his films. I'd like to. The hand processing bit doesn't appeal to me, but filming a feature on 16mm, and doing nearly everything yourself --- that sounds interesting. Absolutely. Hand processing is ok for its inconsistent results too if one were to be shooting an abstract art piece. This film is essentially about a Cornish fishing village and gentrification with a straightforward narrative, which is why I find DIY processing distracting. Also, the limitations of a hand crank Bolex is evident too when it comes to coverage. If MOS camera is desired to be used, a Bolex or a similar camera with electric motor is the way to go when it comes to narrative filmmaking to be able to have some lingering shots for the audience to feel what they are watching as opposed to being rushed from angle to angle... personal opinion of course. Edited July 2 by Giray Izcan 1
Brian Drysdale Posted July 3 Posted July 3 I'm reading various details on the Bolex, some are saying hand cranked, while others are saying clockwork. If the latter, that usually looks fine, the issues arise if doing sync dialogue or a scene that lasts longer and the spring can last (20 to 28 seconds seems to be the range). If hand cranking, that's a deliberate decision.
Giray Izcan Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) Brian, they didn't shoot it on hand crank cameras like a hand crank 2c, but winding clockwork Bolex. Each wind gives you 25-28 seconds of run time.. much like k3 cameras.. Edited July 3 by Giray Izcan
Brian Drysdale Posted July 3 Posted July 3 My understanding in the past was that they used the clockwork spring motor of the Bolex.
Giray Izcan Posted July 3 Posted July 3 I think we are saying the same thing haha. He shot it on winding Bolex as opposed to an electric motor driven one, hence short takes. Each wind is like 25-28 seconds, which is ok for b-roll perhaps but not dialog scenes. I would much rather have the option to be able to continuously roll during a dialog scene for a better edit. Unfortunately, this film has a very choppy edit as a result.
Albion Hockney Posted July 3 Posted July 3 I think his films are great, and the format and meaning/intention is deeply intertwined. not for everybody I suppose as most good art is.
Giray Izcan Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 hour ago, Albion Hockney said: I think his films are great, and the format and meaning/intention is deeply intertwined. not for everybody I suppose as most good art is. Rose of Nevada looks interesting for sure. I will be checking it out.
Giray Izcan Posted July 4 Posted July 4 7 hours ago, Albion Hockney said: 7 hours ago, Albion Hockney said: I think his films are great, and the format and meaning/intention is deeply intertwined. not for everybody I suppose as most good art is. Not enjoying his style doesn't mean that I don't enjoy good art. I don't think film artifacts or short bursts of takes due to a camera's limitations make a film more artful. I love films like Satantango, The Turin Horse or Kierkowski films, where I feel like I get to be a part of the film and soak everything in as opposed to just being rushed through takes.. this is just a personal opinion.
Giray Izcan Posted July 4 Posted July 4 Just to make it clear, I did enjoy Bait for what it was and Mark Jenkin's dedication to craft. All I am saying is that it would have been much more powerful if some of the shots breathed a little longer.. I still look forward to watching Rose of Nevada.
Gautam Valluri Posted July 4 Posted July 4 17 hours ago, Giray Izcan said: All I am saying is that it would have been much more powerful if some of the shots breathed a little longer. This is the kind of feedback that I find frustrating. The director decides the shot length, good or bad. Here Jenkin clearly decided to limit himself to the spring-wound limits of his Bolex, fair enough. I personally find that the hypnotic effect of Bait would've been lost if not for the 25 second shot duration limit and the post-syncing of dialogue.
Giray Izcan Posted July 4 Posted July 4 5 minutes ago, Gautam Valluri said: This is the kind of feedback that I find frustrating. The director decides the shot length, good or bad. Here Jenkin clearly decided to limit himself to the spring-wound limits of his Bolex, fair enough. I personally find that the hypnotic effect of Bait would've been lost if not for the 25 second shot duration limit and the post-syncing of dialogue. I respect your opinion.
Jon O'Brien Posted July 5 Author Posted July 5 To each their own. I really respect that he uses Bolexes to film his features. I would buy a ticket to see one of his films in the cinema in a flash, if I could. But if I was making a feature with a Bolex, I would myself feel more comfortable if, even just for something like maybe three shots in the whole movie, I could film some really extended shots. So if I was using a Bolex I'd have me an electric motor on hand for that. Just to break up the length of shots. It would make for an interesting contrast within the film. But no criticism of him whatsoever for filming the whole movie with the spring wound motor. It's art. It's limiting, and in art to be limited is often a good thing. Our problem today sometimes is that we are unlimited in what we can do. Some people don't get what I'm on about so I will leave it there. You get it or you don't. 2
Giray Izcan Posted July 6 Posted July 6 I am about to start watching Enys Men. I am happy to support filmmakers. I don't think I will get a chance to catch the Rose of Nevada in theaters, but will buy a copy when it is available.
Brian Drysdale Posted July 6 Posted July 6 Unless you've got a 400ft magazine, the Bolex can be wasteful of stock when shooting extended dialogue scenes with 100ft rolls.
Giray Izcan Posted July 6 Posted July 6 Arri s/b with 400ft mag would be my choice of MOS camera, not a Bolex.
Jon O'Brien Posted July 9 Author Posted July 9 (edited) I just watched "Bait" (2018). It's good. Worth seeing in my opinion. It wasn't boring and it has a soul to it, and a kind of moral to the story. Interestingly I didn't find the shots too short. Everything flowed well. He uses the camera in a clever way, to smooth out the shots. Like instead of a zoom he will do a wide shot, then cut to a more close up shot of the same thing. You thus don't notice the shots are never very long. At any rate, that's how it came across to me, without doing any in-depth analysis. I will watch it again sometime. Now I've got to see "Enys Men." Edited July 9 by Jon O'Brien
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