Takeup jam in Eyemo, how and why does this happen?

[Logan Harmon]

Well, I’ve seen pictures of this happen with 16mm cameras, but I hoped it wasn’t going to happen to me… The Eyemo decided that it didn’t want to take up film at some point at the very end of shooting, so when I got back to unload it after it started acting funny, I felt (thankfully did not see since I did it in the dark) film spaghetti on the takeup side…

Not sure how much of that footage (10-ish feet feels like) will be salvageable, but it wasn’t anything super important, just some stuff I was shooting to finish the roll.

Does anyone know what might’ve caused the camera to suddenly stop taking up film after shooting most of the roll? And how do I prevent this from happening again? The last thing I want is to get this camera again and shoot something like E100 and have it do this halfway through the roll…

I’m happy to answer questions that might help someone figure out what happened.

[Dom Jaeger]

Run 100ft of dummy film through and observe the transport to see if you can recreate the problem. 

Could be the take-up got jammed somehow, maybe the take-up clutch failed or the spool was a bit deformed or fouled on the door or something else. 

Do you oil the mechanism regularly? 

[Tyler Purcell]

2 hours ago, Logan Harmon said:

he Eyemo decided that it didn’t want to take up film at some point at the very end of shooting, so when I got back to unload it after it started acting funny, I felt (thankfully did not see since I did it in the dark) film spaghetti on the takeup side…

Is this a plastic daylight spool? They are thicker/fatter than the older metal ones and SOME cameras have issues with jamming. 

[Logan Harmon]

48 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Run 100ft of dummy film through and observe the transport to see if you can recreate the problem. 

Could be the take-up got jammed somehow, maybe the take-up clutch failed or the spool was a bit deformed or fouled on the door or something else. 

Do you oil the mechanism regularly? 

I have a dummy roll I’ve run through a couple times, but I’m not seeing anything unusual. I’ll do it a couple more times to see if I can recreate the same issue.

I’m borrowing this camera from a friend so I don’t know how often it is lubricated.

14 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Is this a plastic daylight spool? They are thicker/fatter than the older metal ones and SOME cameras have issues with jamming. 

I believe it was, actually… that’s interesting.

[Aristeidis Tyropolis]

12 hours ago, Logan Harmon said:

I believe it was, actually… that’s interesting.

If it's the plastic - it has nothing to do with the camera, you can replicate it on a table - it has a tendency to "catch" on its outer segment and that causes spaghettification - lost a roll of 500T sadly because of that. I use mostly metal ones but some of the plastic ones if I am forced to use them (I forgot to bring metal) did work but I burnt some extra film to be 10000% it's not taking up weirdly.

It has happened to many different cameras/people at this point.

Edited Monday at 02:31 PM by Aristeidis Tyropolis

[Tyler Purcell]

13 hours ago, Logan Harmon said:

I have a dummy roll I’ve run through a couple times, but I’m not seeing anything unusual. I’ll do it a couple more times to see if I can recreate the same issue.

SO yea, if it's plastic, then the door is causing rubbing most likely. Kodak knows about the issue, it's been a huge topic amongst people with daylight spool cameras. Eclair ACL's seem to be the worst issues, as the pin that holds the spool onto the shaft, doesn't go on fully so it immediately jams. I haven't tried in my Filmo's yet, but I just got handed a bunch of plastic spools to test, so hopefully I can do that. I have many generations Filmo's to test with. 

[Dom Jaeger]

34 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

SO yea, if it's plastic, then the door is causing rubbing most likely. Kodak knows about the issue, it's been a huge topic amongst people with daylight spool cameras. Eclair ACL's seem to be the worst issues, as the pin that holds the spool onto the shaft, doesn't go on fully so it immediately jams. I haven't tried in my Filmo's yet, but I just got handed a bunch of plastic spools to test, so hopefully I can do that. I have many generations Filmo's to test with. 

This is a post about a 35mm Eyemo, are you talking about 16mm spools?

 

[Logan Harmon]

Well I took the film off the spool just so I could have a look at it to see if there might be an indication of what happened, and I do believe that I might have found the issue… It is very obvious that it was scraping against something in the camera.

Obviously the plastic spools, even for 35mm, are not made to the same tolerance as metal ones.

Edited Monday at 09:03 PM by Logan Harmon

[George Hill]

Plastic spool strikes again, I request the metal ones back every time now

[Simon Wyss]

14 hours ago, Logan Harmon said:

Obviously the plastic spools, even for 35mm, are not made to the same tolerance as metal ones.

They’re made to a different standard. It’s not about tolerances but measures.

[Logan Harmon]

5 hours ago, Simon Wyss said:

They’re made to a different standard. It’s not about tolerances but measures.

The standards for microfilm and cine spools (ISO 1116 and 3047, respectively) reference each other, and have identical (or very similar) measurements for most dimensions. The appendix of 3047 even indicates that manufacturing a single spool for both applications was acceptable, so that may have been a common practice.

Interestingly, the 1999 microfilm standard has tighter tolerances than the cine standard, with 1116 mandating a max height of 35.1mm (+0.4mm tolerance), so 35.5mm max, as compared to 3047 which a max height of 38.9mm. There is a note on 1116 that seems to indicate that this was a new tolerance that older spools likely would not meet, but unfortunately I can’t find older standards.

Edited Tuesday at 05:16 PM by Logan Harmon

[Logan Harmon]

18 hours ago, George Hill said:

Plastic spool strikes again, I request the metal ones back every time now

If you can tell me what lab I can get metal 35mm spools from, do tell! I would love to know.