Need a recommendation for miniDV camcorder purchase

[Leslie Farquharson]

Hi,

 

Am a new film student who is serious about specializing in cinematography. I am racking my brain over which miniDV camcorder is the best to purchase. The school faculty advised that I should get the cheapest miniDV I could find, but I would rather save and invest more money on something substantial that I can use for school projects and personal short film projects. I want something that I will use for some time after school. I was hoping to not spend more than 1500 to 2000 US. I guess this would put me in the 'prosumer' equipment category. I was looking at the Canon GL2, but all of the reviews referring to 'eject cassette' problems has scared me off of the Canon line. Can someone give me some sound advice? Sony, maybe? Thanks so much.

[Bryan Darling]

Hi,

 

I've used camcorders for many years, from the days of Panasonic's SVHS lines to working in brodcast news with BetaSP to both Sony and Canon MiniDV & DVCAM. My main medium is 16mm & Super8, however when it comes to the DV format I recommend Canon. I've used the XL1 for years, tryed out an XL2, and own a GL2. I think for the price the GL2 has the most bang for the buck. It's a very solid unit with a lot of features and customization. In my opinion it's very similar to an XL1s without removable lenses. I think the image is excellent. I like using the Frame mode personally, something I've kept from using the XL1. I feel it gives the image a better feel and quality than other interlaced camcorders.

 

I'm not a fan of the new progressive MiniDV cameras, I owned a Panasonic DVX100 for a couple weeks before selling it. I felt the image stabilization was lacking and felt the camera was overpriced. Even with 24P it still felt and looked like video, so my opinion was why not just shoot film if you want it to look like film; and shoot video for when you want video. I've used the Sony PD-150 and it too is a good camera. I just don't like how many of the camera settings & adjustments are in the menus and not accesible on dials or switches on the camera itself.

 

These opinions come from using camcorders extensively in the field, not a studio. There may be people with other opinions when it comes to working primarily in a studio or very controlled environment in regards to lighting, etc.

[Bryan Darling]

Oops.

Edited May 17, 2006 by tornsprocket

[Tim Shim]

I beg to differ, tornsprocket.

 

I've used both the Canon XL1 and XL2 as well as the DVX100A and I still think the DVX produces better looking images.

 

But of course, this is just a matter of personal preference. Don't want to start a XL1/2 vs DVX war here.

 

leslierenee, if you're looking into 'prosumer' MiniDV cameras, these really are the two major contenders. But you will have to decide by trying both out and reviewing the footage for yourself. Also, things to consider are perhaps size, weight, lens interchangeability and usability.

 

There are lots of other threads on this forum discussing this topic. And more perhaps over at DVInfo.net and other DV forums.

 

Cheers.

[Sam Wells]

If I had only $ 2000 to spend I'd be tempted to get the Sony A1-U HDV, honestly.

 

Not too sensitive in low light but a very interesting cheap camera.

 

 

-Sam

[Scott Fritzshall]

I don't know, I think I might agree with your school. Anything you buy now is going to be hopelessly outdated by the time you're out of school, and you're going to be wishing you had that money to spend on something more current. Does the school not have cameras for you to use?

 

I was in the same boat as you as far as "I should get my own camera so I can do personal projects on the side," and I'm glad I didn't end up getting a camera because none of those projects ever ended up materializing. Not to be cynical or anything, but seriously consider whether this is really a good purchase for you.

[Leslie Farquharson]

I don't know, I think I might agree with your school. Anything you buy now is going to be hopelessly outdated by the time you're out of school, and you're going to be wishing you had that money to spend on something more current. Does the school not have cameras for you to use?

 

I was in the same boat as you as far as "I should get my own camera so I can do personal projects on the side," and I'm glad I didn't end up getting a camera because none of those projects ever ended up materializing. Not to be cynical or anything, but seriously consider whether this is really a good purchase for you.

 

Thanks so much for all of your sage advice, everyone. I will check out the models mentioned here. As far as the school's supply, they said they had a collection of Canon ZR100s for students to use before we move on to 16mm. However, they strongly encouraged us to get our own miniDV due to the low ratio of cameras to students and the fact that we are required to use miniDV in several other courses throughout the program.

 

Do you really think that the GL2 or the XL1/2s will be hopelessly out of date and repugnant by the time I get out of school (2 years). :unsure:

[Tim Shim]

I guess if you're worried about spending quite a bit on a camera that will go obsolete, why not just get a cheap consumer DV cam and spend more on making your films. In the end, it's all about the storytelling and learning from mistakes. For that purpose, any camera will suffice. Sure, the cinematography may not be as great, but you'll have a better foundation if you first focus on your story. A good story can always save a film whereas no amounts of good cinematography can save a bad story.

 

That being said, digital cameras will depreciate much the same as computer hardware. But if you dwell on this issue, you'll always be waiting. Use what you can get now and use it while it can still be used. There will always be something better along the way but what really matters is making the best with what you have.

 

Hope this helps, in a philosophical sort of way. ;)

[Leslie Farquharson]

I guess if you're worried about spending quite a bit on a camera that will go obsolete, why not just get a cheap consumer DV cam and spend more on making your films. In the end, it's all about the storytelling and learning from mistakes. For that purpose, any camera will suffice. Sure, the cinematography may not be as great, but you'll have a better foundation if you first focus on your story. A good story can always save a film whereas no amounts of good cinematography can save a bad story.

 

That being said, digital cameras will depreciate much the same as computer hardware. But if you dwell on this issue, you'll always be waiting. Use what you can get now and use it while it can still be used. There will always be something better along the way but what really matters is making the best with what you have.

 

Hope this helps, in a philosophical sort of way. ;)

 

Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement, timshim. You're totally right about focusing on the story and learning from mistakes (the only way I seem to learn). I'll definitely keep it in mind as I shop so as to reign in the money-spending beast that lies dormant within. :D

 

By the way, dude...nice avitar.

[Bryan Darling]

Also remember just because something is termed obselete doesn't mean the camera itself stops working. Mini-DV will be around for a long time and as long as you have a tape to put in your camera it will work. When purchasing digital equipment it's not so much about what will be obselete as it is about will this work for me and what I want to do.

[Matt Pacini]

It will be around a long time, but you might be embarrassed to show anyone your stuff!

 

They're probably figuring that by the time you graduate, you're going to either love the look of film so much that you won't want to shoot video anymore, or that you'll get a good enough gig that someone else is paying for all your gear anyway.

 

MP

[Tim O'Connor]

For your price range, you might be able to do well with either a Panasonic DV30 or DV60. Both have the

same specs. (except weight) but the 60 is traditional shoulder mount and has XLR's built in while you

have to add (and should) the XLR adaptor to the 30 (which will be balanced.) Both have "film-look" settings

don't use the letterbox option. Shoot 4x3 and letterbox it in post (easy to do in Final Cut Pro.)

 

Both are nice cameras. Lots of shutter speed options. Focus manually as the auto focus likes to grab the

background and can make a face in the center of the shot (i.e. your subject) go a little soft.) Similarly,

manual white balance as the auto can grab onto something new and change the balance dramatically

in the shot.

 

It has b/w infrared shooting if you need to pick up some extra $ working for law enforcement or shooting

wildlife at night.

 

I've fooled a couple of people who thought some of my shorts done with the 30 were film.

[James Steven Beverly]

I, personally would get a good USED JVC GY-500 (the best miniDV camera ever made) which you should be able to pick up for 1500 to 2500 bucks and wait for the HD market to settle down. That's really where video will end up. DV is essentally becoming old technology and relitively soon will go the way od S-VHS so I wouldn't invest a lot of cash in it. The JVC looks and feels like a high end broacast camera and will jet you use to broadcast equipment. Just my 2 cents worth. B)