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Arri 2perf


Max Jacoby

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Yeah 2-perf is great with me. With the digital age in full swing it makes more sense than ever.

 

JB- Besides the Leone films, the Italian giallo's were almost entirely shot 2-perf! I've seen many cleaned-up versions and they look fantastic!!! Check 'em out if you like that kind of film.

 

All those old 2-perf films still look fantastic, and with the stocks of today.....wow...

 

2.35:1 aspect ratio, 1/2 the stock/process cost, great picture quality, 21st century post, newer optics, newer emulsions, who could ask for more? Well, er....my point is film still rocks the Casbah!

 

I'm loving all this 2-perf news.....Bruce is doing 2-perf for KINOR as well as ARRI, the PENELOPE is only a year away,(not that I'll ever own one..) ....happiness abounds on these webpages, it's just great.

 

I figure I can get a Kinor package, the 5000 motor, and the 2-perf upgrade for about $12,000. That would be one mean, independent SOB! Hopefully this time next year....I was going for a really nice 16 job, but how can I now? It'll take a little longer, but worth it.

 

Paul, good luck with this transfer facility! Keep us posted.

 

-Jonnie

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JB- Besides the Leone films, the Italian giallo's were almost entirely shot 2-perf! I've seen many cleaned-up versions and they look fantastic!!! Check 'em out if you like that kind of film.

 

All those old 2-perf films still look fantastic, and with the stocks of today.....wow...

 

Don't forget 60s peplums, Dr.Who movies and Don Knotts/Universal movies(The Ghost and Mr.Chicken, The Shakiest Gun in the West et alii).

 

Thinking of adding early Amicuses, but the Dr.Whos are part of those

Edited by Leo Anthony Vale
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I hope that the optical blow-up process (2 perf neg to 4 perf print) will be propose by labs. It would be still the cheapest option for shorts.

 

I doubt that it will. It wouldn't be cost effective for them to modify thier equipment for it or dedicate a machien for it. Additionally the setup cost would be outrageous. You may find room for one small lab to tinker with it, but the profit margin would be non-existant unless they charged near-D.I. prices.

 

The whole reason for the contemporary intrest in 2-perf is the introduction of the D.I. to obviate the expensive (in the case of 2-perf) and generation wasting optical process.

 

But cheers to anyone who tried.

 

- nathan

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I doubt that it will. It wouldn't be cost effective for them to modify thier equipment for it or dedicate a machien for it. Additionally the setup cost would be outrageous. You may find room for one small lab to tinker with it, but the profit margin would be non-existant unless they charged near-D.I. prices.

 

- nathan

 

Hi,

 

I remember many years ago the cost to modify an Oxberry projector for 2 perf use would be about $10,000. As gates & sprockets are interchanable it would not make the projector 2 perf only.

 

Stephen

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So I am assuming (without checking my math) that film stock would be about 25% more than the cost of 16mm, and developing would be 25-50% more than 16? What other hidden expenses are there (obviously the opticle/DI step adds a lot of cost) my question is if you were do do a feature (100 min) in color, would you save the 100 or 200K it may cost to DI to a 35mm print. Can you do a DI 60K or cheaper (say VERY minimal adjustments, more treating it like a digital opticle, however contradictary that term may be.)

 

My interest in 2perf is picking up with this post. It has always been my understanding 2perf was difficult to make any actual cost savings. I am prepping my next film (well there are 3 stories in contention, budget and time will determine which gets shot) and 2 perf is looking interesting (if not it will be S16 or 16mm again)

 

I assume 2perf with intentioned HD tape finnish would equate to huge savings over 4perf...is this correct, or am I missing something?

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A lot of this is going to depend on the speed and number of 2-perf movements which enter the marketplace within the next year - if Arri and Aaton actually get these things going sooner than later, and if they have enough demand to circulate them far and wide, then it seems fairly inevitable that a larger number of labs and post houses will add the service to fill the demand. My guess, however, is that this market needs at least another year to start to mature, so if you have something ready to go now or very soon, I wouldn't do 2-perf unless you have a post pipeline already in the works. Otherwise it's no different than doing this in 2005.

 

Does anyone know when exactly the Arri 2-perfs are going to start circulating? It would be nice to see something at least about it "coming soon" on the official site.

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I assume 2perf with intentioned HD tape finnish would equate to huge savings over 4perf...is this correct, or am I missing something?

 

Just the aspect ratio issue. 3-perf is a perfect match for 16x9 HD in terms of aspect ratio, but since the 2-perf Full Aperture is 2.66 : 1, you would be cropping the sides to achieve 1.77 : 1.

 

Right now, the lack of camera options is the main impediment to shooting 2-perf. Otherwise, it's just like shooting Super-16 or 3-perf in that you'd have to pay to convert it to 4-perf for projection.

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Just the aspect ratio issue. 3-perf is a perfect match for 16x9 HD in terms of aspect ratio, but since the 2-perf Full Aperture is 2.66 : 1, you would be cropping the sides to achieve 1.77 : 1.

 

Right now, the lack of camera options is the main impediment to shooting 2-perf. Otherwise, it's just like shooting Super-16 or 3-perf in that you'd have to pay to convert it to 4-perf for projection.

 

You would be cropping 2 perf to get 1.77 but if you were going to project it you could do it in wide screen 2.35 by converting it to anamorphic 4 perf for projection. Shooting wide screen with half the film and no anamorphic lens's.

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Yeah, I was considering it a replacement for S16 cropped to 2.35 or as a cost savings to shooting 4perf anamorphic (or 3perf cropped to 2.35) Also being able to use spherical lenses would simplify things....though i have always LOVED anamorphic lens flare, and have wanted to use it, but never had the chance.

 

Also this might be a simpleton question, but can a 2perf capture be squeezed in the DI for anamorphic projection, or would some sort of opticle be needed for that. I cannot see why a DI post house couldn't do the squeeze, short of lack of software.

 

...I don't like 16x9 much. Years of shooting video while watching anamorphic films have given me a disdain for the format, though its probably just cause it reminds me of the state my career is at now. I looked at a short I made when I was a teenager, and I made a matte without really calculating what ratio I was making, through my subconcious I made it a 2.35 almost exactly (I framed it almost perfectly for 2.35 without guides too, very little reframing).

 

Just wondering...I can't afford 4perf 35mm now, I can afford 16mm and I thought something in the middle might be just right.

 

oh, one more simpleton question. Can I assume that 16mm is cut from the same stock as 35mm, and therefore can assume that 2perf has twice the verticle space per frame as S16? I am trying to estimate what 2perf would look like, since I have never seen a 2 perf film projected.

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..........I am trying to estimate what 2perf would look like, since I have never seen a 2 perf film projected.

I believe all of the Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns were shot in Techniscope, the original 2-perf format. (Surely one of them made it up to theatres around you?)

 

Filmography here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techniscope

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2-perf is actually very slightly smaller in the vertical dimension than Super (or regular) 16mm, so no, you aren't gaining any vertical resolution in the matter. That is, however, full height 16mm, so if you were framing for 1.85 or 2.39 it would be slightly less in 16mm, but still probably about the same. The only improvement you get with 2-perf in film resolution is the increased horizontal neg space.

 

By the way, IIRC, the Techniscope system was 2-perf Academy-width, because there was no reason to grab the extra soundtrack area, since an equivalent area would need to be cropped out. So 2-perf isn't 2.66, it's actually 2.33 (.868 x .373). The intermediate system and the projection mask ensures that the projected image is 2.35 (or now 2.39).

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2-perf is actually very slightly smaller in the vertical dimension than Super (or regular) 16mm, so no, you aren't gaining any vertical resolution in the matter. That is, however, full height 16mm, so if you were framing for 1.85 or 2.39 it would be slightly less in 16mm, but still probably about the same. The only improvement you get with 2-perf in film resolution is the increased horizontal neg space.

Not so. 2-perf 35mm is a good 25% taller than super 16mm, and also more than twice as wide. In fact, 2-perf is much closer in dimension (and quality) to super 35mm anamorphic than super 16.

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Not so. 2-perf 35mm is a good 25% taller than super 16mm, and also more than twice as wide. In fact, 2-perf is much closer in dimension (and quality) to super 35mm anamorphic than super 16.

 

Hi,

 

That is correct.

 

2 perf 22mm x 9.4mm

S16 12.3 x 7.4mm

 

Stephen

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Here's a very good link to the Aranda film group who do 2 perf conversions to just about any camera (for a price). This page shows 2 perf compared to 3 and 4.

 

http://www.2perf.arandafilm.com.au/NewFiles/3perfpage.html

 

If you search around the site there is some more great info on 2 perf.

 

Hi,

 

I think you will find they are the cheapest by a long way at about $5000 depending on the camera.

 

Stephen

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