Transferring Super 8 to 16:9 Ratio

danny bartle · August 10, 2004

Is it possible to get a good quality telecine transfer of super 8 to 16:9 ratio? I mean by just shooting normal super 8 & then cut the top & bottom to give you the 16:9 ratio, would there still be enough frame size to get a good 16:9 transfer from it for TV or data projector use?

Also would most transfer places be able to do this type of transfer?

Nate Downes · August 10, 2004

Yes, it can be done. Most places can do it.

Other options, however, include:

Anamorphic lenses, popular in the 16mm world as well.

widening the gate, a la Super-Duper 8.

With these other two methods, however, you will have less of a variety for transfers.

danny bartle · August 11, 2004

Hi,

I was pretty sure it can be done but what I really wanted to know is the 16:9 still good enough for TV standards? Will the cropping of top & bottom make the frame too small for a decent 16:9 transfer?

I have been considering using super duper 8 but i'm not sure if anyone in Australia can transfer super duper 8. I know there are people in the US who can do it & i'd happily send it there but i'm sure they can only transfer to NTSC & I need PAL.....

John Pytlak RIP · August 11, 2004

Using only a 16:9 area from the Super-8 frame will result in higher graininess, but that may be the "look" you want. The larger image Super-16 has proven its effectiveness for 16:9 HD origination:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/16mm/why/?id=0.1.4.3&lc=en

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/16mm/why...0.1.4.3.6&lc=en

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/16mm/why...0.1.4.3.8&lc=en

Nate Downes · August 11, 2004

Anyone with a Workprinter can transder Super-Duper 8. And there are 14 of them in Australia last time I asked.

xoct · August 11, 2004

Could someone list the contact info for places in the US and abroad who can transfer super 8 that's been shot with a widened gate? Also, it would be helpful to know if there are any facilities that can widen the gate on a super 8 camera. Thanks!

danny bartle · August 12, 2004

Yeh I heard there were a few workprinters here in Oz but I still dont know anyone who is willing to do the transfer....

If you know the contact details of people with workprinters that'd ge great if you could pass it onto me....

John Pytlak RIP · August 12, 2004

Could someone list the contact info for places in the US and abroad who can transfer super 8 that's been shot with a widened gate?

Be careful when you use an image that is outside of the image area recognized by the SMPTE standards (i.e., "widened gate"). When film is processed and printed, the equipment has to touch the film along the edges, so using those "unprotected" areas could entail more risk.

Scot McPhie · August 20, 2004

Is it possible to get a good quality telecine transfer of super 8 to 16:9 ratio? I mean by just shooting normal super 8 & then cut the top & bottom to give you the 16:9 ratio, would there still be enough frame size to get a good 16:9 transfer from it for TV or data projector use?

Also would most transfer places be able to do this type of transfer?

I've been wondering exactly the same thing myself you know - and when I look at bit's of my film In My Image that are really well lit and exposed I think the cropping would be fine. The difference is though we shot this on K40 - and K40 shot outdoors in the bright Australian sunshine is virtually grainless - that would be the only stock I would be willing to crop.

To be honest I think all this 200T and 500T in Super 8 is not not much use to someone who is trying to make a film on Super 8 and who wants it to look really good -- I think Kodak made those stocks for the pro's who want the bad Super 8 look -- rather than the people like us who are trying to get the best out of it. Have a look at my short for In My Image I wouldn't have been able to get shots like that with those stocks.

Widening the gate or using an anamorphic lense would therefor also be a better option than cropping because this way you are either widening the film area or at the very least preserving it.

I'm a bit worried myself about messing with the camera or being able to get it transferred well so I'm interested in the anamorphic lense option right now -- you might be able to get hold of one of those Century Optics 16:9 lenses or the one made for the DVX100. Is there a place in Perth like QPIX here in Brisbane -- a support centre for low budget film makers - you might be able to hire one cheaply there.

Scot

danny bartle · August 21, 2004

Hi Scot

I've just had a long chat with Video 8 (Dominic, very helpful guy..) & he's done a lot of 16:9 crops from standard super 8 & he said most of the results we're ok. He said obviously you lose about 30% of the image area but its usually good enough for TV standards.

I too was strongly considering Super Duper 8 but in the end found it too much of a hassle. The decent transfer places in Oz dont know about it & all the ones who can do it in the US only do NTSC conversions!!

I'm doing a VNF test roll today which will be sent to Video 8 to check that I do the 16:9 framing correctly, i'll let you know my results....

Rick Palidwor · August 22, 2004

Be careful when you use an image that is outside of the image area recognized by the SMPTE standards (i.e., "widened gate"). When film is processed and printed, the equipment has to touch the film along the edges, so using those "unprotected" areas could entail more risk.

John is right. We've done a lot of super-duper 8 (widened-gate super 8) shooting and there is a risk that the "unprotected" edge of the film can be scratched in processing - we rigged a wet gate process into our telecine which made the scratch invisible.

Rick

www.friendlyfirefilms.ca