Chris Kenny Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 With nearly 1500 Red cameras reserved I think people will need a unique selling point. If those companies got a good Director and sold his talent, then IMHO they would have a better chance to go upmarket. Possibly, and one of the benefits of being involved with a boutique production company like this (to borrow a phrase from someone who commented on my blog the other day) is that the company can also work on its own projects, so it makes sense to have a director involved. I've commented on this a bit before. This aspect of the whole thing is interesting, because it actually provides a way to make self-funded indie features within the context of a sustainable business, rather than as one-off projects. A company like this working on its own projects... it's almost sort of like the old studio system. Except there are additional revenue streams if features don't make money. And the studio happens to be really small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 He's like the energizer bunny - tick, tick, tick..............Red, Red, Red..................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted March 19, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2007 Possibly, and one of the benefits of being involved with a boutique production company like this (to borrow a phrase from someone who commented on my blog the other day) is that the company can also work on its own projects, so it makes sense to have a director involved. I've commented on this a bit before. This aspect of the whole thing is interesting, because it actually provides a way to make self-funded indie features within the context of a sustainable business, rather than as one-off projects. A company like this working on its own projects... it's almost sort of like the old studio system. Except there are additional revenue streams if features don't make money. And the studio happens to be really small. Hi Chris, I have known many production companies go bankrupt because they were not focused. Sounds like you want to make indie films rather than trying to move your business upmarket. I guess the reason your posts are not well received here is this board if for professional cinematographers, people who make their money from cinematography, not dreamers. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kenny Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have to hand it to Jannard. He is one tenacious marketer , by planting guys like Chris Kenny. You know, if you actually read my posts, you might understand why I'm as interested as I am in this camera. A lot of my posts aren't even really directly about the camera; they're about the kind of industry changes that it represents and will play some roll in bringing about. As I said in one of my earliest posts here, I'm fascinated by how technology shapes society. What's happening in the film/video production world these days is a sort of small-scale example of that, which also happens to be in an industry in which I have a separate interest, and in which I'm in the process of launching a business. If, despite all of that, the only reason you can come up with to account for my interest is that I'm a Red plant... write to Jim Jannard about what good a job I'm doing marketing his camera. Maybe he'll give me a discount or some free Oakley gear or something. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted March 19, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2007 Maybe he'll give me a discount or some free Oakley gear or something. :P Hi Chris, I think you will wear the sunglasses more than you will use the camera. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 If, despite all of that, the only reason you can come up with to account for my interest is that I'm a Red plant... write to Jim Jannard about what good a job I'm doing marketing his camera. Maybe he'll give me a discount or some free Oakley gear or something. :P I have a tip for you. Effective marketing is about subtlety and finesse - not spraying people in the face with a fire hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 . As I said in one of my earliest posts here, I'm fascinated by how technology shapes society. What's happening in the film/video production world these days is a sort of small-scale example of that, which also happens to be in an industry in which I have a separate interest, and in which I'm in the process of launching a business. I think you must be talking about You Tube and similar sites, these have more impact on shaping society than RED. It's the new forms of distribution, not the cameras that will have that sort of impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kenny Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have known many production companies go bankrupt because they were not focused. Sounds like you want to make indie films rather than trying to move your business upmarket. The former is an element of the latter. This is one of the points I've been trying to make. The traditional divisions in the industry are coming down, as cheaper and more flexible equipment is allowing individuals (and particularly companies) to leverage their equipment investments in more markets. I guess the reason your posts are not well received here is this board if for professional cinematographers, people who make their money from cinematography, not dreamers. I think you will wear the sunglasses more than you will use the camera. You know, this sort of thing is really not necessary. I'm not a professional DP; I've been completely up front about that. But I don't appreciate the implication that I haven't got a clue and the business I'm starting hasn't got a chance. There's frankly nobody on this board that has enough information to validly claim that. I think you must be talking about You Tube and similar sites, these have more impact on shaping society than RED. It's the new forms of distribution, not the cameras that will have that sort of impact. Brian, I was referring to the changes within the industry as a small-scale example of technology changing society. Sorry if I wasn't more clear about that. I agree that in terms of wider impact, changes in distribution will have a larger impact than changes in acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 My recommendation is for all RED reservation holders and all those truly interested in the possibilities of the RED camera... stop posting here. Wait until after NAB. Let the camera speak for itself. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted March 19, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2007 t. But I don't appreciate the implication that I haven't got a clue and the business I'm starting hasn't got a chance. There's frankly nobody on this board that has enough information to validly claim that. Hi Chris, Anybody reading your posts will be able to make their own informed opinions. Stephen My recommendation is for all RED reservation holders and all those truly interested in the possibilities of the RED camera... stop posting here. Wait until after NAB. Let the camera speak for itself. Jim Hi Jim, Welcome back, look forward to testing the camera. Best wishes, Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kenny Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 My recommendation is for all RED reservation holders and all those truly interested in the possibilities of the RED camera... stop posting here. Wait until after NAB. Let the camera speak for itself. I'm starting to think you're right. It seems like every time I make an interesting point in a discussion here, the subject immediately turns to how I'm just some kid who couldn't possibly know anything. Ah, well. I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Chris, I think that Jim is just smarting from all the backlash and is sick of having to wade through the nonsense. In a few short weeks the thing will speak for itself, and Jim is confident because he know what he has. So perhaps the strongest testament to RED One yet is for Jim himself to say that we should all relax until the grand unveiling at NAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I just received a phone call from Jim Jannard. He was very frustrated about having been implicated with the Red hype that has been so prevalent on this site for the past few weeks. He stated, emphatically, that he has no professional association with Chris Kenny and the others, nor is he personally acquainted with them. He asked me why I would make the comments that I did, and I explained to him that I had done so for two reasons. I wanted him to know that, if it had in fact been him behind it, his tactics were not gaining him any respect among many on the site. On the other hand, if he had nothing to do with it, then hopefully the radical fanboys would get the message and give it a rest. In retrospect, even if the latter were the case, as it seems to have been, I realize that it still was none of my business and that I could just as easily have ignored that particular thread. In that regard, I want to apologize to Chris Kenny. He has as much right to his opinions and interests as does any one of us. I asked Jim why he would care at all about what I had to say, and his response seemed sincere. He told me that he did not care what anyone thought about his advertising, but that he resented being called a liar. I can relate to that, and, in light of our conversation, I feel that my posts were not fair to him. Consequently, I want to publicly apologize to Jim. Notwithstanding my unfair posts, Jim was polite as well as gracious enough to invite me over for an in-depth demonstration of his camera. He did not at all strike me as a person who would resort to the tactics of which he was accused. Again, please accept my apologies, Jim. Regards, Ken Cangi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Max Jacoby Posted March 19, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2007 Gosh, how did he get your number? I'm glad mine is unlisted. Never mind, I just realized it's on your website. Does anyone have Patrizio's number by the way? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Gosh, how did he get your number? I'm glad mine is unlisted. My studio office number is listed on my website. I actually prefer it that way, because I want people to know that I am available and accountable for the things that I say and do. Cheers, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kenny Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 On the other hand, if he had nothing to do with it, then hopefully the radical fanboys would get the message and give it a rest. In retrospect, even if the latter were the case, as it seems to have been, I realize that it still was none of my business and that I could just as easily have ignored that particular thread. In that regard, I want to apologize to Chris Kenny. He has as much right to his opinions and interests as does any one of us. Um... I don't want to drag this out, but I feel I'm being misrepresented here, if I'm one of the "radical fanboys" you're talking about. Over the last week or two, I've posted some numbers showing it's possible to build a fairly low-cost camera system around Red, I've pointed out to some people that their expectations for accessory pricing might have been unreasonable (and most people here agreed with me), and I've calmly discussed where I think Red fits into the market. None of this seems to me to be particularly "radical", much of it was in direct response to issues raised by others, and the discussion has been largely civil. That said, I accept your apology, and in the future I expect I'll generally restrict my posting here to technical issues, and have the discussions about other issues in more receptive forums. I won't be responding any more in this particular thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chad Stockfleth Posted March 19, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted March 19, 2007 Wait until after NAB. Let the camera speak for itself. ....4.....short....weeks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I just received a phone call from Jim Jannard. He was very frustrated about having been implicated with the Red hype that has been so prevalent on this site for the past few weeks. He stated, emphatically, that he has no professional association with Chris Kenny and the others, nor is he personally acquainted with them. He asked me why I would make the comments that I did, and I explained to him that I had done so for two reasons. I wanted him to know that, if it had in fact been him behind it, his tactics were not gaining him any respect among many on the site. On the other hand, if he had nothing to do with it, then hopefully the radical fanboys would get the message and give it a rest. In retrospect, even if the latter were the case, as it seems to have been, I realize that it still was none of my business and that I could just as easily have ignored that particular thread. In that regard, I want to apologize to Chris Kenny. He has as much right to his opinions and interests as does any one of us. I asked Jim why he would care at all about what I had to say, and his response seemed sincere. He told me that he did not care what anyone thought about his advertising, but that he resented being called a liar. I can relate to that, and, in light of our conversation, I feel that my posts were not fair to him. Consequently, I want to publicly apologize to Jim. Notwithstanding my unfair posts, Jim was polite as well as gracious enough to invite me over for an in-depth demonstration of his camera. He did not at all strike me as a person who would resort to the tactics of which he was accused. Again, please accept my apologies, Jim. Regards, Ken Cangi Your apologies towards Jim are fine, but I think a conversation over the phone between two people has to be private. If he wanted to go public, he would have told you his concerns here publicly. You do the same with private messages...that is so immature on your side. Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Brighton Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) ....4.....short....weeks.... Go da RED!! Yo' da M-a-a-a-a-an! etc etc. I only hope I can get close enough to see something worthwhile. But then again, I have reason to believe that most Fanboys tend to be on the short, stout side. I'm still surprised there aren't any "Rad-Red" Oakleys on offer; I'd have thought that would make a effective industry statement for the show. Now, where can I get a pair of fake Ray-Bans? Snicker, snort ... snarf...:D Jim was polite as well as gracious enough to invite me over for an in-depth demonstration of his camera. He did not at all strike me as a person who would resort to the tactics of which he was accused. Again, please accept my apologies, Jim. Do you mean at the show, or over at RED HQ? Edited March 20, 2007 by Carl Brighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 My studio office number is listed on my website. I actually prefer it that way, because I want people to know that I am available and accountable for the things that I say and do. Cheers, Ken Quite possibly a local call, does JJ live in Utah as well? Or CA? R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Your apologies towards Jim are fine, but I think a conversation over the phone between two people has to be private. If he wanted to go public, he would have told you his concerns here publicly. You do the same with private messages...that is so immature on your side. Cesar Rubio. Always the master of insight. I don't know what we'd do without you, Cesar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Always the master of insight. I don't know what we'd do without you, Cesar. Ken told me on the phone that he was going to post and I told him that was OK with me... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Ken told me on the phone that he was going to post and I told him that was OK with me... Jim Welcome back Jim. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Always the master of insight. I don't know what we'd do without you, Cesar. Well Ken...you learned your lesson! It's NOT the same to talk garbage in somebody's back, than to tell them in the "face" right? What are you going to do if you go to NAB and see Jim face to face? That's why I told you that I wanted to meet you one day, to see if you have the balls to say what you say hidden behind your monitor! Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Ken told me on the phone that he was going to post and I told him that was OK with me... Jim Jim: He didn't offer the same to me. See ? thats the difference between a coward and a real man. The coward will offer the powerful all his apologies, and to the ones that he considers less powerful, he will despise them. He knows that you have the power to "pay him" a visit if you wanted to...you don't even have to book a flight, because you own your own plane! I am glad that you came and silenced all the cowards like Ken, that now is your "friend"...but before? A "friendship" or "support" like that, for me is worthless and an hypocrisy! Cesar Rubio. Always the master of insight. I don't know what we'd do without you, Cesar. We? Do you need more people besides you, to deal with me? I don't need anybody else to deal with cowards like you. Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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