Reil Munro Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Bonjour fellow colleagues Very insightful techniques to using the C-stand...I thank you all for the refresher(s). By the way, I'm new to this board and a on-set grip here in Canada (I work in many of a different Province) and have worked as a lead and dolly grip and had the fortunate opportunity to Key a couple of non-sanctioned shoots. And of course I would and am, looking forward to Keying more shows in the future...I thank you all for your tremendous knowledge which I've been reading for the past while. How do you feel about those shims that are in the pucks heads ? someone once told me that if there's cork, then theres more of a chance of slippage then with the aluminum ones...true/false ? And do any others use the practice when shaping the set of holding the cutter in its place while the on set grip jigs the stand accordingly, in relation to where the flag is positioned ? (On sand-bagging - we have the purse style ones here and found that if laid across the back two legs with the handle in the direction of the floor makes it easier to pick up when kicked off by the foot, since it will land with handle up....I can't believe I typed that) Merci "Cheers to us...and people like us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted December 31, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted December 31, 2007 And do any others use the practice when shaping the set of holding the cutter in its place while the on set grip jigs the stand accordingly, in relation to where the flag is positioned ? Huh? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reil Munro Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Huh? :blink: I've had keys hold a 24X36 in the place they wanted it to live and had to rig the C-stand to it, while the flag is being held...it hasn't happened all that often, but it has with some Keys...guess its not a common practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert duke Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) It is a very common practice. I frequently do this with very specific cuts, or awkward placements. or cuts that are difficult to see. I find it easier to tag team the flag in these situations. You might also find this is easier when the hammers are inexperienced. Seeing light is a skill that takes time to develop. As is operating a century stand. It helps young grips to learn the ways of a C stand without the fetterings of a flag. It allows you to supervise them and get the job done without making them feel bad about their skill with the stand. As for your bagging technique. I wont criticize but you will find you can take a bag off quite easily by flipping it off to one side as you lift. The Purse style bags still suck but you make do with what you got. It is amazing the amount of weight a c-stand can offset without a bag if the big leg is directly under the weight of the arm. The more you do this the more you find that you need small bags, the more your back thanks you for not carrying 35lbers all day. I think Chris didnt understand your usage of "jig". Edited December 31, 2007 by robert duke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Rosenbloom Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 It's a common practice, but there's often something rather condescending about it, w/ a DP staring daggers at you because he doesn't want you to spoil this placement of a flag that is such genius he can't just hand you the flag and tell you where he wants it. Give me a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Morlan Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Exactly what Robert wrote. Sometimes, when I'm keying, I know exactly where the cut should be and hold the flag while my grip sets the stand. Sometimes, as the D.P., I've talked a grip into position and another member of the team will step up. More often than not, a grip was "hollywooding" a flag and we needed to free him/her up. Just depends on how critical it is and if there is someone handy. I've been told that, in India, labor is so cheap that, rather than placing a light or flag on a stand in a fast-moving set, the keys will merely order up another grip from the available crew. Would that be "bollywooding?" Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan brockett Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 If you're looking for the "best" C-Stand, my personal vote would go to American Grip's C-Stand. They have a bit thicker tubes and the grip head handles are by far the easiest to spin/tighten/untighten I've come across. Personally, I've found that the MSE line has suffered a tad in the QC since moving all it's manufacturing offshore (china I believe). I'm not coming at this from a "buy american" perspective...just think American Grip's stuff is really great. Its all I'll buy now as they last a lot longer under extreme conditions. Check it out if you get a chance. BTW- I'd place Modern at just as good as MSE and cheaper. I'm with Paul, American Cs are the best. Really solid build, best knuckles for really cranking down and undoing without breaking your hand. I personally have all Norms Cs, which I rate just a hair under American. If I was buying today, it would be American but at the time I bought Norms, I didn't even know about American. Norms are great too, just not as nice shape of the knuckles. Matthews, I do not care for although they are very popular. Their spring stopped legs should be declared torture devices, they slow you down and are a real drag. A lot of people are not aware that you can obtain 25% off of Norms list prices if you pay cash or credit card as you place your order. I think I heard same deal for Modern's stuff although I have not used their Cs. This makes Norms and Modern stands VERY inexpensive. You could call American and see if they do a similar deal. Best, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert duke Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I'm with Paul, American Cs are the best. Really solid build, best knuckles for really cranking down and undoing without breaking your hand. I personally have all Norms Cs, which I rate just a hair under American. If I was buying today, it would be American but at the time I bought Norms, I didn't even know about American. Norms are great too, just not as nice shape of the knuckles. Matthews, I do not care for although they are very popular. Their spring stopped legs should be declared torture devices, they slow you down and are a real drag. A lot of people are not aware that you can obtain 25% off of Norms list prices if you pay cash or credit card as you place your order. I think I heard same deal for Modern's stuff although I have not used their Cs. This makes Norms and Modern stands VERY inexpensive. You could call American and see if they do a similar deal. Best, Dan Modern also offers the 25% off. I feel the contest is between modern and american these days. Modern has a new head and all their c-stands are made from stainless steel( no chrome to peel off). the new matthews are nice, better than the norms. I almost feel like norms is going out of buisness. last time I priced from them they were as expensive as matthews, and more than modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Rogers Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Modern also offers the 25% off. I feel the contest is between modern and american these days. Modern has a new head and all their c-stands are made from stainless steel( no chrome to peel off). the new matthews are nice, better than the norms. I almost feel like norms is going out of buisness. last time I priced from them they were as expensive as matthews, and more than modern. I don't know what price list you are looking at, but with the 25% discount at Norms, their prices are MUCH better than matthews! What do you all think of the difference between all modern and norms gear? I am getting ready to buy a 1 ton package and would like to buy the better overall brand. I am looking at flags, butterflies, combo stands, c-stands, beefy babys, a doorway dolly, track, skater wheels, and a few other items. Modern with thier discount actually seems to be cheaper by about 5%. Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert duke Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I think even in the long run Modern is a better choice. The fact that the stands are stainless steel ( no rust, no chipping chrome, no worry about rain, pools, etc) makes them a better choice. Norms raised their prices last spring, make their baby stands $210. I havent checked their prices in a while. The fact that their heads are built so you can run the arm through either side of the head is a major detraction. The fit and finish of the norms brand has become less and less over the years. I dont know if it is because old man norms retired and his son took over but the quality has gone down hill and the prices way up. I have a norms hostess tray and ball head. The hostess tray seems a lower quality than the modern one. I dont work for Modern, I am just a fan. As a gear owner I only buy modern these days, it just makes sense price and quality wise. You can walk into Modern any day of the week and ask Seno a question. It is a family run operation. If you have a problem with their gear they will fix it. they also fix other people's gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Palm Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Blain Brown has a DVD in Motion Picture and Video Lighting (2nd Edition) which has a great section on basic grip tips & tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Here are a coouple more: 1. Do not use the Gobo Arm unless absolutely necessary. 2. Dry to 'dead hang' all Flags if possible. If you have a 2x3 or 4x4 standing straight up (with the pin at the bottom),it has a MUCH better chance of swinging down and even loosening and dropping out than if you 'dead hang' it with the pin at the top so that Gravity is working with you. 3. Of course Righty Tighty, not Lefty Loosey, when Arming or setting Flags parrallel to the ground. 4. When a Flag it set (or dead hung) hanging close to the riser have the 'flag' side towards camera. the less chrom facing Camera the better. 5. Always use the lowest (thickest) Riser possibel... save the last, top thin one as a last result. David Rakoczy Dir/ DP USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Satsuki Murashige Posted February 1, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 1, 2008 I notice no one's mentioned setting a bounce board on a c-stand. The way to do it is to set the gobo arm vertically (parallel with the stand) with the head up so that it grips the board from the top and the back of the board rests against the arm. Angle the bottom of the arm away from the stand a few degrees so that it actually provides support for the board. When opening or closing a c-stand on your shoulder, rest the legs against your thigh so that you have some resistance when you pull the first leg open. This works well for old sticky c-stands that are hard to open. If you get really good at this, you can do it while walking - pull open a leg on every other stride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chad Stockfleth Posted February 1, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 1, 2008 5. Always use the lowest (thickest) Riser possibel... save the last, top thin one as a last result. I've always been told the opposite of this, to start with the top riser first. That way when you need to raise it higher, you don't have to completely lower it to reach the new riser. As a side note, I've been working on using the c-stand without the drunken method. Wouldn't want to do anything "improper". :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Parnell Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I notice no one's mentioned setting a bounce board on a c-stand. The way to do it is to set the gobo arm vertically (parallel with the stand) with the head up so that it grips the board from the top and the back of the board rests against the arm. Angle the bottom of the arm away from the stand a few degrees so that it actually provides support for the board. Alternatively, you can use an onky bonk to grip the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Haas Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Alternatively, you can use an onky bonk to grip the board. I don't know if I like the sound of that onky bonk but I would use a duck bill to grab the bounce board. The problem with the other method described is that normally you will want the board angled towards the ground not the ceiling. Plus using an appropriate clamp is much quicker. ~Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Richard Humber Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 An onky-bonk and a duckbill are the same thing. Also called "lips", and other things depending on where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian mussell Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 what do you guys call a onky-bonk? in the u.k we have onker-bonkers, they are 12" or 18" risers for turtles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Richard Humber Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hi Ian, Onky-bonks are another name for "duckbill" style bead board holders in the us and, I guess, Australia. They have a lot of different names depending on where you are working. It's probably the most "multi-named" peice of grip equipment in the us. I've known them as duckbills, lips, onky bonks, and platypus'. I generally just say bring me a set of lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert duke Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Billy grip=Onkybonk=platypus=beadboardclamp=duckbill clamp=Any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian mussell Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 are they something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Erlichman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Also know here as "Quacker clamps" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Wallens Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 ian mussell, No. that is more like a gator grip (although not really), which, in my opinion, are less desirable for holding bboard. This is a duckbill. It is basically just a modified vise-grip: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian mussell Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 thanks for clearing that up daniel! we don't use these in the u.k, so don't have a name for them. i like the look of them though, i'm going to make a couple so i can try them out! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Auner aac Posted February 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 8, 2008 are they something like this? I know that one as a spring clamp. Comes in handy for holding show card, Depron and the like. I often use it with what Manfrotto sells as a flex arm. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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