jan von krogh Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 The manufacturer of the Red one published today images shot with the camera at ISO8000, lit with tungsten. As i am not sure if it is legal to post the images here i provide a link to the images. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3215 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayse Irvin ASC, CSC Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Thats impressive... :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted July 14, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 14, 2007 Thats impressive... :wub: Hi, I would like to see a stouffer chart exposed that way. Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 The fragments of the chart above show a huge loss of fine detail. I hope that is due to the shrinking of the size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 The fragments of the chart above show a huge loss of fine detail. I hope that is due to the shrinking of the size. Of course... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Of course... Jim Any chance of seeing the full-sized file then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Any chance of seeing the full-sized file then? Rather than waste time uploading the 4k, I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. I am curious, Nate... is there anything you found interesting in the ISO 8000 image as posted? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted July 14, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 14, 2007 Upload the 4K. Otherwise, you give the appearance of being evasive. I have still not seen real uncompressed 4K off the camera. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Upload the 4K. Otherwise, you give the appearance of being evasive. I have still not seen real uncompressed 4K off the camera. Phil Phil... think what you want. And we are not shooting uncompressed 4k. We don't intend to. We are shooting 4k REDCODE RAW. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Rather than waste time uploading the 4k, I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. I am curious, Nate... is there anything you found interesting in the ISO 8000 image as posted? Jim Well, as/is it's nice and noise-free that I can tell. But I did notice some moire issues in the shadow areas, but that likely is due to the noise reduction routines in the software, and is a lot less severe than most video cameras that I've delt with. However, going from frame to frame this could be a severe issue if not addressed. All in all, impressive, and I hope to be able to use one in the upcoming year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Klipsch Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. Jim You guess? We have to trust? I don't. Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 You guys just love to start a fight. Jim, it looks very interesting. Must be one hell of a noise floor in the DSP. Excellent contrast performance. I'll be interested to check itoutin the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 You guess? We have to trust? I don't.Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not? Werner... sorry you feel that way. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William A Chapman Jr Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Werner has a point, you want to sell the Red, right? If it were me I would try to show at its best. With that said it dose look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan von krogh Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Werner, Phil, relax... soon you will be able to rent a red a to check it for yourself. Also, these camera then won´t be prototypes. It seems that the ISO8000 and ISO16000 shots have been done with the "Acapulco" testcameras, which Mark Neveldine recently used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan von krogh Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Werner has a point, you want to sell the Red, right? There are 100% crops on reduser.net, however not in the iso8000 thread i linked. http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1184475989.jpg shows a comparison between 5218(320) and red(2000) in full scale. i suppose you must be logged in in the forum in order to see the link. however, the on-line shots will only be previews. the original raw-images a) contain much more information and B) don´t use several layers of datareduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Klipsch Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Werner... sorry you feel that way. Jim Well, your grief could be greatly lessened if you would consider giving a straight answer occasionally. I have designed a 5K CG zone plate pattern that prints onto an A0 sized sheet. With my 35mm SLR and careful focus, you see all the rings. When you film it with 35mm movie film and a good lens, you get a picture of the plate with nearly all the rings. With the supposed 3.08K Arri D-20 you get something under half the rings, sort of visible. The results with most 2/3 inch HD cameras is laughable. With SD DigiBeta is hysterical. With what I thought was my pretty good Sony SD handycam, I'm embarrassed to say how far it didn't go! I keenly await my chance to point your product at it. You can pull wonderful resolution rabbits out of the hat with lots of straight lines; you can't fool a zone plate. But if your camera is as good as you say, what better advertisement could there be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Max Jacoby Posted July 15, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 15, 2007 I have designed a 5K CG zone plate pattern that prints onto an A0 sized sheet. With my 35mm SLR and careful focus, you see all the rings. When you film it with 35mm movie film and a good lens, you get a picture of the plate with nearly all the rings. With the supposed 3.08K Arri D-20 you get something under half the rings, sort of visible. Would you mind posting the chart here so one could have a look at it? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, I'd suppose the lines arew not just horizontal and vertical, but also diagonal? Or is it even more elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 There are 100% crops on reduser.net, however not in the iso8000 thread i linked.http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1184475989.jpg shows a comparison between 5218(320) and red(2000) in full scale. i suppose you must be logged in in the forum in order to see the link. however, the on-line shots will only be previews. the original raw-images a) contain much more information and B) don´t use several layers of datareduction. Actually, looking at the 5218 you don't see grain, you see the digital scanners standard output, w/o any form of noise reduction. Looks as a standard line-CCD pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Would you mind posting the chart here so one could have a look at it? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, I'd suppose the lines arew not just horizontal and vertical, but also diagonal? Or is it even more elaborate? Yes, I too would be interested in seeing the chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peploe Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 QUOTE(Werner Klipsch @ Jul 14 2007, 07:44 PM) You guess? We have to trust? I don't. Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not? Werner... sorry you feel that way. Jim Ahh and here we go again. A good request evaded like a politician. Answer but with no real answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Flores Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Werner... sorry you feel that way. Jim It looks very good Jim. Would like to have been able to use four or five of yous cameras for our production. Timing you know. We move into prep in another week or so and will begin PP Oct 1st. My DP was looking forward to using 'em. We'll use them next time. Lance Flores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 This so silly why dont you all wait and see what it looks like on a 70 foot wide screen ,either digital projection or via a crappy DI to film . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Jannard Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 QUOTE(Werner Klipsch @ Jul 14 2007, 07:44 PM) You guess? We have to trust? I don't. Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not? Werner... sorry you feel that way. Jim Ahh and here we go again. A good request evaded like a politician. Answer but with no real answer. Michael... how's this. I won't be badgered into doing anything. I could care less whether Werner or you believes what we are doing is real. Steven Soderbergh and Rodney Charters do. I feel sorry, not for me, but for those that are so cynical. You don't trust me? Sorry for you, not me. I'll check back on this board in a month or so after we start shipping. In the meantime, I'll be posting on other boards regarding RED info if you are so inclined. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted July 15, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 15, 2007 As for what Rodney Charters thinks of it, I am drawn inexorably back to an interview with Marvin Rush, director of photography on Star Trek, who "had been hesitant" to shoot HDCAM, who suddenly became the format's biggest fan when the show went over to it. I was going to try and do this nicely, but I really don't have time. Jim, your consistent hissy-fit threats to post elsewhere have no currency here. What is happening here is this: Red: "It's great!" Us: "Fantastic! Show us!" Red: "Er, well, you see, there's just this thing... look over there!" (run run run run) Now Jim, seriously, what the hell do you expect the reaction to be? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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