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RED at ISO8000.


jan von krogh

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Any chance of seeing the full-sized file then?

 

Rather than waste time uploading the 4k, I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. I am curious, Nate... is there anything you found interesting in the ISO 8000 image as posted?

 

Jim

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Upload the 4K.

 

Otherwise, you give the appearance of being evasive.

 

I have still not seen real uncompressed 4K off the camera.

 

Phil

 

Phil... think what you want. And we are not shooting uncompressed 4k. We don't intend to. We are shooting 4k REDCODE RAW.

 

Jim

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Rather than waste time uploading the 4k, I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. I am curious, Nate... is there anything you found interesting in the ISO 8000 image as posted?

 

Jim

 

Well, as/is it's nice and noise-free that I can tell. But I did notice some moire issues in the shadow areas, but that likely is due to the noise reduction routines in the software, and is a lot less severe than most video cameras that I've delt with. However, going from frame to frame this could be a severe issue if not addressed. All in all, impressive, and I hope to be able to use one in the upcoming year.

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I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg.

 

Jim

 

You guess? We have to trust? I don't.

Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not?

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You guess? We have to trust? I don't.

Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not?

 

Werner... sorry you feel that way.

 

Jim

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Werner, Phil, relax... soon you will be able to rent a red a to check it for yourself.

 

Also, these camera then won´t be prototypes.

It seems that the ISO8000 and ISO16000 shots have been done with the "Acapulco" testcameras, which Mark Neveldine recently used.

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Werner has a point, you want to sell the Red, right?

 

There are 100% crops on reduser.net, however not in the iso8000 thread i linked.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1184475989.jpg

shows a comparison between 5218(320) and red(2000) in full scale. i suppose you must be logged in in the forum in order to see the link.

 

however, the on-line shots will only be previews. the original raw-images a) contain much more information and B) don´t use several layers of datareduction.

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Werner... sorry you feel that way.

 

Jim

Well, your grief could be greatly lessened if you would consider giving a straight answer occasionally.

 

I have designed a 5K CG zone plate pattern that prints onto an A0 sized sheet. With my 35mm SLR and careful focus, you see all the rings. When you film it with 35mm movie film and a good lens, you get a picture of the plate with nearly all the rings. With the supposed 3.08K Arri D-20 you get something under half the rings, sort of visible.

 

The results with most 2/3 inch HD cameras is laughable. With SD DigiBeta is hysterical. With what I thought was my pretty good Sony SD handycam, I'm embarrassed to say how far it didn't go!

 

I keenly await my chance to point your product at it. You can pull wonderful resolution rabbits out of the hat with lots of straight lines; you can't fool a zone plate.

 

But if your camera is as good as you say, what better advertisement could there be?

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I have designed a 5K CG zone plate pattern that prints onto an A0 sized sheet. With my 35mm SLR and careful focus, you see all the rings. When you film it with 35mm movie film and a good lens, you get a picture of the plate with nearly all the rings. With the supposed 3.08K Arri D-20 you get something under half the rings, sort of visible.

Would you mind posting the chart here so one could have a look at it? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, I'd suppose the lines arew not just horizontal and vertical, but also diagonal? Or is it even more elaborate?

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There are 100% crops on reduser.net, however not in the iso8000 thread i linked.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/5_1184475989.jpg

shows a comparison between 5218(320) and red(2000) in full scale. i suppose you must be logged in in the forum in order to see the link.

 

however, the on-line shots will only be previews. the original raw-images a) contain much more information and B) don´t use several layers of datareduction.

 

Actually, looking at the 5218 you don't see grain, you see the digital scanners standard output, w/o any form of noise reduction. Looks as a standard line-CCD pattern.

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Would you mind posting the chart here so one could have a look at it? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, I'd suppose the lines arew not just horizontal and vertical, but also diagonal? Or is it even more elaborate?

Yes, I too would be interested in seeing the chart.

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QUOTE(Werner Klipsch @ Jul 14 2007, 07:44 PM)

You guess? We have to trust? I don't.

Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not?

 

 

Werner... sorry you feel that way.

 

Jim

 

 

 

Ahh and here we go again. A good request evaded like a politician. Answer but with no real answer.

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Werner... sorry you feel that way.

 

Jim

 

It looks very good Jim. Would like to have been able to use four or five of yous cameras for our production. Timing you know. We move into prep in another week or so and will begin PP Oct 1st. My DP was looking forward to using 'em. We'll use them next time.

 

Lance Flores

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QUOTE(Werner Klipsch @ Jul 14 2007, 07:44 PM)

You guess? We have to trust? I don't.

Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not?

Werner... sorry you feel that way.

 

Jim

Ahh and here we go again. A good request evaded like a politician. Answer but with no real answer.

 

Michael... how's this. I won't be badgered into doing anything. I could care less whether Werner or you believes what we are doing is real. Steven Soderbergh and Rodney Charters do. I feel sorry, not for me, but for those that are so cynical. You don't trust me? Sorry for you, not me.

 

I'll check back on this board in a month or so after we start shipping. In the meantime, I'll be posting on other boards regarding RED info if you are so inclined.

 

Jim

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As for what Rodney Charters thinks of it, I am drawn inexorably back to an interview with Marvin Rush, director of photography on Star Trek, who "had been hesitant" to shoot HDCAM, who suddenly became the format's biggest fan when the show went over to it.

 

I was going to try and do this nicely, but I really don't have time. Jim, your consistent hissy-fit threats to post elsewhere have no currency here.

 

What is happening here is this:

 

Red: "It's great!"

Us: "Fantastic! Show us!"

Red: "Er, well, you see, there's just this thing... look over there!" (run run run run)

 

Now Jim, seriously, what the hell do you expect the reaction to be?

 

Phil

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