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Is the Misterium Sensor an AltaSens CMOS?


Cesar Rubio

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I think that manufacturers like Zeiss and others would make excellent c-mount lenses if they were needed or requested.

As time passes and the movie making industry makes the change to 3-D, a complete set of tools are going to be needed and hence designed and manufactured to supply that need.

 

Any how, I see a bright future for the SI-2K MINI, Congratulations and keep up the good work!

 

If I had the money right now, I would buy a couple of MINIS for 3-D work, probably some day...

 

Cesar Rubio.

Cambridge Wisconsin, USA.

http://www.davidrubio3d.com/

 

Speaking of 3-D:

 

 

"A quantum leap in 3D production and stereographic post-production from a tapeless workflow, resulted in a successful 3D test shoot and screening on Saturday, September 1st . Producers Steve Gibby and Kenneth Corben of GibCor, teamed up with their 3D production partners Max Penner and Tim Thomas at Paradise FX to produce one of the first stereo 3D shoots originated with RED 4K cameras.

 

GibCor provided RED camera #8 and their associate, Billy Summers, provided RED camera #13. Both were literally ?out of the box? from the first 25 RED cameras released on August 31st. The team shot a 4K 3D dual camera test, and captured REDCODE RAW to two RED 8 GB compact flash cards.

 

The production alliance between GibCor and PFX has been in development on their RED 4K 3D projects since February in anticipation of the cameras? release this year. ?The results of this first RED 4K 3D shoot will enable us to bring great stories, shot in stereo 3D, to audiences like never before,? said producer Steve Gibby. The RED 4K cameras were fitted with a pair of RED compact zooms (18-50mm) and mounted to the Paracam. The Paracam is a 3D camera system that employs a beam splitter and has digital control of the inter-axial and convergent positioning of each of the RED ONE cameras. By Noon the team was viewing 3D content, originated from a tapeless 4K workflow.

 

The 4K 3D post workflow was seamless thanks to the SCRATCH system and Lucas Wilson from Assimilate. The 4K REDCODE RAW .r3d files were imported from CF cards into a beta version of REDCINE running on an Intel based Mac system. The left and right eye files were de-bayered from 4K RAW to 2K files then imported to SCRATCH as .dpx files. SCRATCH allowed for ?plug and play? into Paradise?s dual projection system for quick stereo 3D playback. After the screening, veteran 3D stereographer Max Penner said, ?To take 2 cameras that have never been tested out of the box, then shoot and project 3D all in one day, is almost unheard of. All done with no umbilical cables, tape decks or digitizing. This changes everything!?

 

Paradise FX and GibCor are in negotiations with several major studios regarding this technology and it?s implementation in the motion picture industry. This is the first of a succession of stereo 3D tests with the RED ONE camera. Ongoing tests will help to define a workflow to apply to future 3D productions in both Large Format Film and Digital Theatrical Releases. The RED ONE camera has a small 3D form factor with a high resolution at a decent price, making it highly promising for future 3D films."

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Why is RED 16:9?

 

Easy! Because RED is an HD through 3kish camera. Need to shoot some HD footage? No problem. Need to shoot some 1.85 or 2.35 material? No problem. Crop a little bit.

 

Do I like the look of anamorphic. Hell yeah. Do I want to sacrifice camera performance in order to get it? Nope. Flexibility is the key and 16:9 is a great starting point imo. I see no conspiracy and if anything I see a trend *away* from anamorphic even on film-originated projects. Better to design your product how it's going to be used most often instead of catering to a developing niche market.

Edited by Gavin Greenwalt
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Speaking of 3-D:

"A quantum leap in 3D production and stereographic post-production from a tapeless workflow, resulted in a successful 3D test shoot and screening on Saturday, September 1st . Producers Steve Gibby and Kenneth Corben of GibCor, teamed up with their 3D production partners Max Penner and Tim Thomas at Paradise FX to produce one of the first stereo 3D shoots originated with RED 4K cameras.

 

GibCor provided RED camera #8 and their associate, Billy Summers, provided RED camera #13. Both were literally ?out of the box? from the first 25 RED cameras released on August 31st. The team shot a 4K 3D dual camera test, and captured REDCODE RAW to two RED 8 GB compact flash cards.

 

The production alliance between GibCor and PFX has been in development on their RED 4K 3D projects since February in anticipation of the cameras? release this year. ?The results of this first RED 4K 3D shoot will enable us to bring great stories, shot in stereo 3D, to audiences like never before,? said producer Steve Gibby. The RED 4K cameras were fitted with a pair of RED compact zooms (18-50mm) and mounted to the Paracam. The Paracam is a 3D camera system that employs a beam splitter and has digital control of the inter-axial and convergent positioning of each of the RED ONE cameras. By Noon the team was viewing 3D content, originated from a tapeless 4K workflow.

 

The 4K 3D post workflow was seamless thanks to the SCRATCH system and Lucas Wilson from Assimilate. The 4K REDCODE RAW .r3d files were imported from CF cards into a beta version of REDCINE running on an Intel based Mac system. The left and right eye files were de-bayered from 4K RAW to 2K files then imported to SCRATCH as .dpx files. SCRATCH allowed for ?plug and play? into Paradise?s dual projection system for quick stereo 3D playback. After the screening, veteran 3D stereographer Max Penner said, ?To take 2 cameras that have never been tested out of the box, then shoot and project 3D all in one day, is almost unheard of. All done with no umbilical cables, tape decks or digitizing. This changes everything!?

 

Paradise FX and GibCor are in negotiations with several major studios regarding this technology and it?s implementation in the motion picture industry. This is the first of a succession of stereo 3D tests with the RED ONE camera. Ongoing tests will help to define a workflow to apply to future 3D productions in both Large Format Film and Digital Theatrical Releases. The RED ONE camera has a small 3D form factor with a high resolution at a decent price, making it highly promising for future 3D films."

 

The Paracam approach for 3-D is nothing "new", IMAX did it first...and its a difficult and HEAVY approach for doing 3-D..with Red cameras, CineAltas or similar full size cameras.

 

I still think that the SI-2K MINI is MILES AWAY from that ordinary and OLD way of doing 3-D.

 

I can't believe the ignorance of some guys like the one who posted this on Reduser:

 

"This is just too much...

How to sleep after all of this???

First there was nothing,then came RED

Total mess...so different

Amazing... Simply Amazing

Priceless..."

 

-Nothing?

 

Nothing in your small brain, because in the real world there was a LOT before Red.

 

I don't have nothing against the Red camera, but with comments like the one above or after reading 1 worthy post on Reduser and 25 like: Cool, great wonderful, you guys rock, I am here and I don't have a life, please SEE ME kind of posts...I can understand all the rejection of some members of this forum against the Red camera and its followers...

 

The future will tell who is right and who was wrong. PERIOD.

 

Cesar Rubio.

Cambridge Wisconsin, USA.

http://www.davidrubio3d.com/

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I was wondering when someone would get round to that...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4232

 

Some questions that were asked a long time ago are now being discussed.

 

...and as you can see from the lenghtly thread, Graeme is completely open in the discussion. We wish we could have had the same kind of interaction here, but a few were more interested to pick a fight with every response than engage in real dialog. They weren't really questions, they were loaded questions waiting for any response to trash.

 

I said I would not post here until we started shipping, which we now have. I would love for the RED team to feel welcome enough to engage in real discussions here. Honest questions with real answers. But the feeling of being bushwhacked still lingers.

 

Speaking of bushwhacked, I'm quite surprised at Keith (Jim Murdoch, Carl Brighton) Walter's response. I don't quite understand exactly what he said but "he doth protest too much" comes to mind. Stephen Williams and I must have the same source.

 

We are just beginning a long road with our camera. It is not done. I'm not sure it will ever be done. Updates and improvements are a part of our program. The one thing that sets us apart is the fact that we will upgrade our customers as we go along. We have many features that are enabled now. Movies are being shot on RED. We will enable more features in the very near future. And we have features planned for the RED ONE that have not been announced. Most are firmware upgrades, free and easy to do. Some, like a new sensor upgrade (over a year out), will cost a modest amount but will make your "old RED ONE" current with the newest technology and feature set.

 

If we have distressed you with our marketing, I am sorry. It is every companies dream to have a fanatical backing. Some fans may have gotten out of line. But we have created something that people are passionate about. On both sides.

 

We have listened to the industry and made many changes to our program because of smart suggestions. We are still listening.

 

Jim

 

Jim Jannard

RED Digital Cinema

Edited by Jim Jannard
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I was wondering when someone would get round to that...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4232

 

Some questions that were asked a long time ago are now being discussed.

 

And what's so miraculous about that thread is not a single person has been banned yet! The Moderators must have just gone on vacation or something because no way that people could discuss the technical merits of a device for 10 pages not ban the whole lot of 'em!

 

On a more serious note. I still currently feel like the Dalsa chip is producing a bit more resolution (10% if I pulled a number out of my ass...) Of course this could be one of a thousand things making the difference: Focus, mathematically uncompressed storage, lenses, F-Stop, extremely mild sharpening, extremely fast shutter, months to hand select well lit images...

 

I suppose someone will point it at a chart soon enough. Which will really in the end be pretty academic since A) I can afford to capture images off of the RED sensor in the field B) There are RED cameras within 100 miles of me unlike the Dalsa.

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> Phil - have you contacted any of the first res. holders to offer services?

 

Why on earth would I want to do that?

 

"Hello! I know how to plug in CF cards!"

 

Very persuasive, yes, lovely...

 

Contact them? I did - well, actually he contacted me, and I responded - a good few weeks ago to discuss an upcoming project I have which may be well suited to his camera and had some interesting engineering issues. He told me to buy one. Well, obviously I'm not going to buy one, it's an eight day shoot. I'm going to rent one - only I'm not, because they're not available. And to be honest I am so confused as to what it will and will not do, what outputs it has, what's an optional extra, what's available now, what'll be available in five years... I have no idea what the capability of the thing really is.

 

They simply don't get the industry they're working in.

 

Phil

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> Phil - have you contacted any of the first res. holders to offer services?

 

Why on earth would I want to do that?

 

"Hello! I know how to plug in CF cards!"

 

Very persuasive, yes, lovely...

 

Contact them? I did - well, actually he contacted me, and I responded - a good few weeks ago to discuss an upcoming project I have which may be well suited to his camera and had some interesting engineering issues. He told me to buy one. Well, obviously I'm not going to buy one, it's an eight day shoot. I'm going to rent one - only I'm not, because they're not available. And to be honest I am so confused as to what it will and will not do, what outputs it has, what's an optional extra, what's available now, what'll be available in five years... I have no idea what the capability of the thing really is.

 

They simply don't get the industry they're working in.

 

Phil

 

You whined about not being able to see images from the camera before the thing was available (even though cursary research would have shown that uncompressed tiffs had been posted.)

 

Now you are whining that you can't get access to a camera in the first week after only 25 cameras have started shipping, you are whining about a lack of information about outputs and formats and availability of extras (info also readily available to anyone with an internet connection)

 

And now you are whining that Red won't predict the future for you.

 

Good luck with that.

 

R.

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It may reduce the traffic volume... but it sure would be nice if people posted with specific information / personal experience and otherwise, restrained themselves from long discussions based on rumors or bad feelings or whatever. I know that anticipation and pre-release hype make people on both sides want to talk, but it's not particularly valuable talk unless it addresses specific design issues. Now that the camera is being released to people, maybe we can start getting first-hand information, or at least, second-hand information.

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It may reduce the traffic volume... but it sure would be nice if people posted with specific information / personal experience and otherwise, restrained themselves from long discussions based on rumors or bad feelings or whatever. I know that anticipation and pre-release hype make people on both sides want to talk, but it's not particularly valuable talk unless it addresses specific design issues. Now that the camera is being released to people, maybe we can start getting first-hand information, or at least, second-hand information.

 

 

I think your right... I don't think the people who love Red beyond belief will have their minds changed and I think that those who dislike Red will have their minds changed also..

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That was personal experience - I contacted them about the suitability of the camera for a specific circumstance and was roundly told to fu** off.

 

Now people are suggesting I try to get more involved. I'd love to, if they'll have me, but something tells me they won't.

 

Phil

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I think your right... I don't think the people who love Red beyond belief will have their minds changed and I think that those who dislike Red will have their minds changed also..

 

Mr. McClurg,

 

Does it matter if people change their minds or not? I remember something David said a long time ago (in internet terms anyway)

 

Something like: "The technical stuff is nice, but in the end, what does the image LOOK LIKE!?"

 

I would think, seeing as how the camera is out there, and there is no doubt we are seeing more footage than we did a few weeks ago, that we should all be able to decide if the images captured by RED are nice enough to tell a story with.

 

Perhaps that's what you were speaking of, those that don't like RED will hate the images regardless of what they look like, and those that do like RED will love them.

 

I have to say though, as one from "fanboy" crowd. We are looking at the images, and we are not simply "loving them" for the sake of it. In fact we have seen some things that concern us a bit, and we have voiced those concerns to the engineers at RED. Believe it or not, as Jim will tell you, we are, in fact, a very paticular crowd.. We just make our suggestions from a positive approach rather than chooseing a more "insulting route". We find things get done faster that way.. But that's just us.

 

Regardless of all this, I believe I see your point.

 

 

Jay

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That was personal experience - I contacted them about the suitability of the camera for a specific circumstance and was roundly told to fu** off.

 

Now people are suggesting I try to get more involved. I'd love to, if they'll have me, but something tells me they won't.

 

Phil

 

Phil,

 

Jim just wrote an open post to EVERYONE on this board (Of which you are a part) asking for useful feedback and discussion.

 

The "ball" as it were, is now in your court. Take a POSTIVE attitude here and assume people WANT to hear what you think and give some USEFUL and MEANINGFUL feedback and/or questions.

 

Try real hard to lose the negative comments and/or attitude when you do cause it's hard to take advice from someone you feel is slamming you in some way or another.

 

Come on man.. Here's a chance to get involved. I for one would like to know what you think. Just be nice about it.

 

Ask questions: The engineers at RED are watching this and IF THEY CAN answer your question they will. I know it. Always remember though, it's not Sony or Panasonic.. It's 20 or so guys in a building running their asses off to keep up with everyone's demands. A lot of times the answer is "Uh, we're not sure yet.. We have an idea, but want to get it more developed before we say so we don't change our answer 200 times and look like idiots".

Jay

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I wasn't referring to Phil's post, I was just making a general statement that people should keep to specifics, and that there is no reason to be in a for-or-against camp. The RED camera is going to become part of the arsenal of moviemaking in the our industry and it makes sense to learn what it can do. I'd just ignore anyone who wants to make it a religious crusade, on either side.

 

All manufacturing companies have a human component, hence why if one is going to work in the industry, one has to make a good faith effort to work with these companies, and vice-versa, rather than take an adversarial stance because that would be to the detriment of both sides. If you constantly act as a public critic of some company, whether or not it is Arri, Panavision, Kodak, Fuji, Sony, Thomson, or RED, odds are higher that they will not be interested in supporting you, dealing with you, not if they have plenty of happy customers. That's only human. But if you have a pleasant working relationship with a company, they are a lot more amenable to accepting feedback and even criticism when they know it's not personal. So you need to build a relationship with all of these companies in the movie business if you want to be part of the process rather than an outsider.

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I wasn't referring to Phil's post, I was just making a general statement that people should keep to specifics, and that there is no reason to be in a for-or-against camp. The RED camera is going to become part of the arsenal of moviemaking in the our industry and it makes sense to learn what it can do. I'd just ignore anyone who wants to make it a religious crusade, on either side.

 

All manufacturing companies have a human component, hence why if one is going to work in the industry, one has to make a good faith effort to work with these companies, and vice-versa, rather than take an adversarial stance because that would be to the detriment of both sides. If you constantly act as a public critic of some company, whether or not it is Arri, Panavision, Kodak, Fuji, Sony, Thomson, or RED, odds are higher that they will not be interested in supporting you, dealing with you, not if they have plenty of happy customers. That's only human. But if you have a pleasant working relationship with a company, they are a lot more amenable to accepting feedback and even criticism when they know it's not personal. So you need to build a relationship with all of these companies in the movie business if you want to be part of the process rather than an outsider.

 

Ok.. David writes it much better than I do.

 

Max, I read Phil's post. I also read Jim's. And now I have read David's. I tend to read what's in front of me. I'm funny that way.

 

My origional comment stands. Good people move past disagreements if they have the character to do so. This is not about a camera, or a belief. It's about character. Jim has demonstrated his by taking a fair amount of abuse on here and still coming back and offering a dialouge on RED. The ball, so to speak, is now in the court of each poster on C.com.

 

I guess now we will just sit back and see what kind of posts Jim gets in return. That will speak volumes.

 

Jay

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Phil,

 

Jim just wrote an open post to EVERYONE on this board (Of which you are a part) asking for useful feedback and discussion.

 

The "ball" as it were, is now in your court. Take a POSTIVE attitude here and assume people WANT to hear what you think and give some USEFUL and MEANINGFUL feedback and/or questions. Jay

 

 

Maybe this is what he should have written...

 

Guys sorry for being a moron somethimes... I'm sorry for some of the comments I've made... lets start again and now lets talk...

 

That would be the way to approach it...

 

Oh and Jay if you want to get along... what's the old saying Mr. McClurg is my father... just call me Gary... :lol:

Edited by Gary McClurg
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Forgot to add... wish it'd give you more than one chance to edit a post...

 

So Jay did you get your Red... if so... I'll drive up to St Louis... and you can let me test it out for myself... it might take about 3 to 4 weeks to see how it works... and then with all the footage I've shot.. guess I'd just have to turn it into a movie... :)

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