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Buying a Matte Box...trying to figure out why


Jon Petro

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Not to be cynical, but don't you need a camera? Every live action flick I've seen had one, even if it was an SLR for stop motion.

 

Who said live action? My point is that there's no universally needed piece of equipment for production - everything is circumstance-dependent.

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Who said live action? My point is that there's no universally needed piece of equipment for production - everything is circumstance-dependent.

 

Well then, if not live action, then I suppose you mean animation. This would require a computer or at least a notepad and a pencil which still qualify as something as opposed to not needing anything.

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Well then, if not live action, then I suppose you mean animation. This would require a computer or at least a notepad and a pencil which still qualify as something as opposed to not needing anything.

 

Lye, Brakhage & MacLaren have all drawn or scratched directly on blank film.

 

So I suppose they would require a piece of film.

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My point is that there's no universally needed piece of equipment for production

 

I really wish you'd get around to finish reading my posts... :P

 

Some guys only need film and a pen, others just need a computer. I know one animation student who was doing shots frame by frame with a pinhole camera, so you can have a camera without a lens. One director whose name escapes me regularly gets old old junk negative from post houses around town and trace-scratches the image's lines with a razor. These are extreme examples, I am aware, but by now the refrain should be clear - there is no single physical sine non qua of production.

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Guest Trevor Swaim
I think it's safe to say you need certain pieces of equipment to produce what we all consider a film, whether released theatrically or or DVD. That's really what we're talking about here.

 

 

which pieces are those?

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Experimental films are fine, they used an experimental film maker to create the effects for "The Right Stuff" but HONESTLY, how many people have ever actually seen 99.9% of these experimental films. The guy who scratched raw stock lived in a cabin in the middle of nowhere Colorado or something, and if you're satisfied with that, more power to you, but MOST film makers want to make a statment than people can relate to, not produce some odd mutation that very few people ever will see.

 

Look guys, like it or not we are in the film business. In order to remain an artist in the film business, you HAVE to make money because films a just plain too damned expensive to create to NOT turn a profit on a regular basis. Maybe this is the producer in me talking but without profit there is no "next project" and with every swingin' d"ck in the world shooting what they think is the next "Ben Hur" only shot on consumer video, one of the few advantages we have to stand out from the flood of half-assed product is production value. It's become sense the tidal wave of Mini DV production, a necessity to even be considered for release. Sure there are exceptions but, these are far and VERY few between. The tools you have are part of that production value, looking slick and professional, creating images that are memorable and exciting. It's all part of the formula for success as an independent film maker, to make the film look like it cost a Hell of a lot more than it did to make. Scrimp where ever you can but NEVER scrimp on what you put up on the screen. B)

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I suffer from this mentality too, my feeling is at least if the film doesn't sell it won't cost that much to make another with the same equipment since I already own it. It holds its value, it is a great investment. Most equipment maintains its value, so in my opinion the money I spent is still mine if I was ever in a jam I would just unload it all. I might sustain a small loss but it's not like a used car.

 

However, I live outside of NY so I don't have a rental facility drought. I also am not looking to set up an entire film studio, I admire what you have done and I would probably salivate if I got a tour of your facilities. But I just want to make films for a living which does not require me to own a film studio. Good luck to you.

 

Jon

 

35mm stuff pretty much retain it's value well unlike video stuff. I bought a $6000 JVC GY-500 IN 2002 and it's all but obsolete now. I think I have less than 75 hours on the heads. Most of the stuff I have is old but it all works well. The processing machine is relatively new, Brey still makes this model, the step printer was used on the original Star Trek, one of the KEMs was used to edit The Producers (the musical, not the original), the Kinor 35c was just upgraded and refurbished by Aranda this year, the Lomo lenses (Sphereical and anamorphic) are vintage 90's, The Konvas KSR-1 is mid 60's but in absolute MINT condition, the paint is even still perfect, My Magna tech 600 film recorder is one of the first or second generations and the MTM Dual 16 & 35mm Recorder & Dubber Compact is newer, My Hollywood Lite steadicam is 3 years old and only used twice, My Vinten hydraulic camera dolly/ crane is from the 70's but again woks perfectly, a decent ex military gennie. The studio building is old and decrepit with a leaking room but it is affordable and repairable. MY lighting set is also very old but works. I work with a guy who owns an 8 ton and a 5 ton lighting and grip trucks so I have access to all the lighting and grip equipment I need plus his expertise to do the lighting. But ALL of this was built from nothing. When I decided to get into film making, I had the space and that was it. I still want an optical printer, a film coding machine, a 35mm projector thought I did just get a pair of 35mm film reproducers to run tracks in sync with the dailies, a few other thing but soon I will start and never look back. Everything I bought, I made sure I got a very good deal on or I didn't get it. I've got freezer for film stock, a scene shop, make up and costume rooms, stdio space a conference room projection room. I'm close, VERY close. But I have learned from experience, don't start UNTIL you're read otherwise you disappoint everyone who but their faith in you and that can NEVER be undone.

Edited by James Steven Beverly
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I am looking into getting myself a 4X4 for my camera. The thing is I don't like using filters. I am thus wondering what the point of a Matte Box is beyond filters and protection from flares.

 

I am sorry to sound ignorant, but they cost a fortune and if I don't plan on filtering that much or at all, is it necessary to get a Matte Box?

 

Any opinions?

 

Jon

 

 

What kind of camera do you have? There are many brand name matte boxes that are great but

cost a fortune. Then there are some off brands, including some soft matte boxes that may not be so great

for using more than one or two filters (which may be okay with you anyway) that cost a couple hundred

bucks and do help a lot in cutting light more than a lens hood and protecting you from veiling or lowered

contrast.

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What kind of camera do you have? There are many brand name matte boxes that are great but

cost a fortune. Then there are some off brands, including some soft matte boxes that may not be so great

for using more than one or two filters (which may be okay with you anyway) that cost a couple hundred

bucks and do help a lot in cutting light more than a lens hood and protecting you from veiling or lowered

contrast.

 

I've got a super 16mm eclair NPR with lightweight arri rods system so it can take anything that can fit 15mm rods (60mm gap). I did find one great looking 4x4 , it's a 4X4 bellows, with two filter holders (one rotating) and comes with a french flag. It pretty much looks like an Arri, but it's only around 5 or 6 hundred bucks. I might get this because renting a mattebox for a month will probably only cost a little less than buying this one.

 

I am not sure though. I have decided to just rent lenses instead of going out and buying them, so might as well get the mattebox and follow focus from the rental house too. Amazingly that is all I need to rent. Everything else is covered. So, I guess I only have to decide what I want to rent out of Mattebox, Follow Focus, Lenses. Most likely all three.

 

Jon

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Trevor Swaim
Comeon fellow, this is Cinematography.com and we are arguing over whether a camera is essential or not. Let me try this one...has there ever been anyone to win an Academy award for best cinematography without using a camera?

 

 

true but then you are changing the question to suit your answer. The question is what is the one piece of universal equipment that is needed to make what we all consider a film. Their was no question of academy awards, live action, or anything else. The answer to the question is nothing is universally necessary. If you change the question then the answer will of course change.

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There's always a huge divide in these discussions between those fortunate to live and work in production centers like LA, and us poor slobs out here in the vast film wastelands.

 

For myself, there's a local OKC film-maker who has grip truck packages up to 5 ton. Plus he has a reasonable day rate as Key Grip, Gaffer, etc. I own fair amount of good quality professional stage lighting equipment (S4's, 1kW Fresnels, etc.), he's got big HMI's and a silent xtal generator. So I know I can get involved in a project that's complex from a grip/electric point of view but not to get too fancy with camera equipment, camera support gear, etc. - the good stuff lives many expensive air freight shipping miles away from here.

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Which is why I had to build a studio with it's own support facilities and will continue to gather as much equipment as I can and feel is needed. Because I'm a poor, working slob, I get what I can get, when I can get it, at the best price I can. It's been tough, 7 years tough, BUT it was unavoidable. MY primary focus has been camera and film gear. I was fortunate to have a friend with both 10 ton and 8 ton lighting and grip trucks, with a humongous ultra-quite diesel genny. As far as lighting goes, I PERSONALLY only have a half dozen or more OLD 5ks, several 1k Fresnels, a dozen or so ellipsoidals, about 30 homemade pars, a follow spot, 2 4-bulb cyc lights, a scoop, 4 American DJ 4 light stands, a few disco lights, several boxes of various gels and 3 lighting boards ALL theatrical or DJ equipment along with an old military genny than can pull 220 but was probably used in Vietnam!

Needless to say, if I didn't have the trucks available, I'd probably be shooting in daylight. Everything is harder outside the major film areas for an independent, BUT I like the idea of not having to follow anyone else's rules or get anyone else's approval. Being outside of LA and New York works for me, even if it is a pain in the ass to get a lot of things done. I guess that's why Waters makes his films in Baltimore.

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Guest Trevor Swaim
There's always a huge divide in these discussions between those fortunate to live and work in production centers like LA, and us poor slobs out here in the vast film wastelands.

 

For myself, there's a local OKC film-maker who has grip truck packages up to 5 ton. Plus he has a reasonable day rate as Key Grip, Gaffer, etc. I own fair amount of good quality professional stage lighting equipment (S4's, 1kW Fresnels, etc.), he's got big HMI's and a silent xtal generator. So I know I can get involved in a project that's complex from a grip/electric point of view but not to get too fancy with camera equipment, camera support gear, etc. - the good stuff lives many expensive air freight shipping miles away from here.

 

I am fortunate to make a decent amout in wedding videography which has enable me to put together a nice camera package (hd110) and the ever increasing desire by local artist to make lowbudget films (myself included) has given me an excuse to get together a decent little package. Renting for me makes absoultly no sense due to the time and gas cost involved. Not to mention I get to play with some cool toys for very little cash. I purchased my DVX100 about 4 years ago For $3500 and shot a feature with it in total I owned it for about 6 months and then sold it for $3000.

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We don't have a rental house in El Paso, or a film lab, or editing rooms, or screening rooms, or any other motion picture support facilities so I was pretty much forced to build a film studio from scratch, which I've essentially at this point, done. Even if I did have some place to rent from, I personally, don't like having to rent anything. If I use it 3 or 4 times, I could have bought it. But if you want to shoot right away, renting is a good option.

 

Would a lens hood do the same thing as a matte box? If you were to just block glare, and sun rays?

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Would a lens hood do the same thing as a matte box? If you were to just block glare, and sun rays?

 

It'll help but a matte-box is generally larger so it will control light spill much better and has filter frames so you can use the same filters on different lenses and change them quickly as opposed to using screw-on filters. If all you have is a lens hood, it's better than nothing, use it and save up for a matte-box but make sure you've got a piece of cardboard (painted black or show-card) or a small flag (or a French flag if you can afford one) handy to augment your light spill control.

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