Jump to content

L.A.R.T. under NDA


Stephen Williams

Recommended Posts

This might just be semantics, but I think that offering unreleased equipment and presumably wanting feedback implies a certain level of involvement, after all you just don't hand new stuff out to anyone and tells them to do with this whatever and not get back to you about what they thought of it. I am not implying that Red is taking a controlling interest in these tests, but I do not see the need for them to distance themselves from these tests like they when very clearly they were involved.

 

Max honestly you have no clue what you are talking about here. From what I saw Jim post is that he was distancing himself from the NDA.

 

In fact I was very suprised that there was not more of a presence from red at the tests as it was a very good publicity and meet the future customers opportunity. Like I said red was not involved in any of the actual testing. Not that I exactly am sure what half naked women and stunt fighting have to do with testing. David Mullen, Matt Uhry and I had the chance to hold up in a dark office and do some good old fashioned standard, boring lens and camera tests that should give some decent results though (It was actually a fair amount of fun as David and Matt are great).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Wrong conclusion...
QUOTE (Max Jacoby @ Dec 6 2007, 08:17 AM) *

So Red was not involved AT ALL with these tests?

Correct.

Jim

It is quite simple - RED provided LART with as yet unreleased RED equipment and support with a request that we not release the info or test results until after RED's official announcements..."

Like Max said, it may just be semantics, but I do see a contradiction between those 2 statements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay Daniel so you are building a deck and I am your next door neighbor. I see you building a deck and say hey here's my hammer but you can only hold it and look at it and not use it. Now was I really involved in any way in your deck project? I do not see how I can make it any simplier then that. Red was not involved in the testing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay Daniel so you are building a deck and I am your next door neighbor. I see you building a deck and say hey here's my hammer but you can only hold it and look at it and not use it. Now was I really involved in any way in your deck project? I do not see how I can make it any simplier then that. Red was not involved in the testing.

 

 

But if your neighbor used your hammer... then you could say... hey he used my hammer to build his deck...

Edited by Gary McClurg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay Daniel so you are building a deck and I am your next door neighbor. I see you building a deck and say hey here's my hammer but you can only hold it and look at it and not use it. Now was I really involved in any way in your deck project? I do not see how I can make it any simplier then that. Red was not involved in the testing.

If you're saying that the new toys that RED supplied were in the "look, touch but don't use" category.. then you have a point.

 

But from what I've read, it's more akin to you lending me a fancy new hammer to use on the deck (a left-handed hammer? ;) ) and then asking me not to talk about building my deck, until you officially announce your new hammer line to the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We disagree then.

 

We'll have to wait & see if any of the organisers would like to shed any further light on the issue. If not, it really remains an academic discussion anyway.... semantics.

 

No academic discussion here. Like I said you guys have no idea what you are talking about. I was an invited member of LART, was there for the whole time and saw exactly what took place. I mentioned this earlier. Did you miss it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No academic discussion here. Like I said you guys have no idea what you are talking about. I was an invited member of LART, was there for the whole time and saw exactly what took place. I mentioned this earlier. Did you miss it?

Good for you.

 

All I've been wondering about is the following 2, contradictory statements:

 

"...Jim confirmed that the NDA was not from red."

 

"...RED provided LART with as yet unreleased RED equipment and support with a request that we not release the info or test results until..."

 

I see a contradiction, you say you don't.

Good for you, but we disagree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good for you.

 

All I've been wondering about is the following 2, contradictory statements:

 

"...Jim confirmed that the NDA was not from red."

 

"...RED provided LART with as yet unreleased RED equipment and support with a request that we not release the info or test results until..."

 

I see a contradiction, you say you don't.

Good for you, but we disagree.

 

 

I had heard there were far less children here then red user but I guess I found one in a big hurry Danny.

 

Go off don't read posts properly and make your assumptions based on your made up little ideas. All I can tell you is what you are reading into the information you have is wrong, I can not go into any further detail due to NDA. Not that you could understand it anyway.

 

Have a good time in high school tomorrow Danny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It appears that there are a few here looking to pick a fight over just about anything.

 

The NDAs were done by the LART organizers. RED did not ask them to do it, did not draft them or participate in the NDA in any way. Pretty simple.

 

If we supplied anything and made any kind of request, like "here is a new untested build to experiment with, try it out but let us know how it works before you use it for definitive testing"... it would be a simple request. It would NOT have been a formal request, a written request or demand, accompanied by an agreement, an NDA or any other expectation. Just a courtesy. It is not unusual for us to give out these test builds to some of our customers under similar circumstances. On our website we have a production build and a test build. We also have daily builds that we give out for feedback.

 

We didn't tell LART what to test or how to test. We didn't ask to see results before they are posted. We have tried not to influence LART at all. Primarily so we wouldn't get into these idiotic discussions.

 

Why any of this matters is beyond me. Some here are looking for contradictions in statements... for what reason again?

 

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It appears that there are a few here looking to pick a fight over just about anything.

 

The NDAs were done by the LART organizers. RED did not ask them to do it, did not draft them or participate in the NDA in any way. Pretty simple.

 

If we supplied anything and made any kind of request, like "here is a new untested build to experiment with, try it out but let us know how it works before you use it for definitive testing"... it would be a simple request. It would NOT have been a formal request, a written request or demand, accompanied by an agreement, an NDA or any other expectation. Just a courtesy. It is not unusual for us to give out these test builds to some of our customers under similar circumstances. On our website we have a production build and a test build. We also have daily builds that we give out for feedback.

 

We didn't tell LART what to test or how to test. We didn't ask to see results before they are posted. We have tried not to influence LART at all. Primarily so we wouldn't get into these idiotic discussions.

 

Why any of this matters is beyond me. Some here are looking for contradictions in statements... for what reason again?

 

Jim

 

Hey Jim, that's all settled well and good, but I notice you STILL have not denied being a 7 foot tall shape shifting lizard that eats children.

 

It's all very suspicious.

 

R.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The NDAs were done by the LART organizers. RED did not ask them to do it, did not draft them or participate in the NDA in any way. Pretty simple.

Great.

 

That's all I was asking... pity it took so long for a simple answer. If you notice, I was quoting 2 people, asking for clarification of what looked like a contradiction. They were never my words, they were yours and Jeffreys.

 

The whole world is not out to 'get' RED Jim, though we do look on with intense interest, given the amount of hype you've drummed up around your product. :)

 

Now, if we're all clear here, I have a cyclone to dodge and a week of shooting in Kiribati to get ready for... Yes Daren, I got a letter from my teacher releasing me. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, if we're all clear here, I have a cyclone to dodge and a week of shooting in Kiribati to get ready for... Yes Daren, I got a letter from my teacher releasing me. ;)

 

 

Have a fun field trip.

 

Hey Daniel

 

I appologize if I came across overly harsh which I feel I did. I felt you were mocking and not willing to openly listen to facts. That said because of the NDA I am unable to get into greater detail then I posted so I can see where it would be confusing. Thing is lart was a gibcor test and like I tried to explain and Jim also mentioned red was not involved in any way in any of the tests.

 

Hope we can continue on and leave this behind Daniel.

 

PS- Fiji women are beautiful, so is your teacher hot? (ha)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I appologize if I came across overly harsh which I feel I did. I felt you were mocking and not willing to openly listen to facts. That said because of the NDA I am unable to get into greater detail then I posted so I can see where it would be confusing. Thing is lart was a gibcor test and like I tried to explain and Jim also mentioned red was not involved in any way in any of the tests.

I believe this has been resolved to our respective satisfactions. I too must apologise if you found my 'good for you' quip offensive, it was not intended to be.

 

PS- Fiji women are beautiful...

Well, if I wasn't under an NDA... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, this is interesting. Wouldn't there be a fundamental difference between three chip and single chip designs?

 

With a single chip, the choice of the dye densities used in the Bayer mask could be used to adjust the balance. With three chips, unless you put some ND between the prism and red and green chips, the only control you have is where along the spectrum the dichroics put their cuts. The silicon may be the same, but your options in compensating for it should be different.

 

The comparison with early film is kinda the other way around. Film started out with silver halides that are exclusively blue sensitive. Silicon chips have more sensitivity in red and green than in blue, so they need the extra blue of daylight.

 

But what happened with film is that they discovered chemicals that could be added to the emulsion that would absorb green (ortho) and later red (pan), and re-emit the energy as blue. Maybe if we could find something that worked the other way, absorbing blue and shifting the energy to wavelengths that work more efficiently with the chips, that would solve the balance problem. It might be something that could be added to the silicon, like doping to make N and P regions, or it may be a layer between the chip and the Bayer mask, designed to boost only the blue photosites. Lotsa fun, but of course this is just -- well --- blue sky speculation. ;-)

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

It's an interesting theory John, but it would essentially mean limiting the performance of red and green so that blue can catch up. No one wants to make a less sensitive camera. So they get the most they can out of blue without the noise floor exploding and balance from there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Forum Sponsors

BOKEH RENTALS

Film Gears

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

CINELEASE

Cinematography Books and Gear



×
×
  • Create New...