xoct Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 So recently I've seen posts here about a few companies that offer 60m/200 ft. rolls of super 8 film, including Andec in Germany which offers Fuji film that way. Please please please, Kodak, it seems that as Super 8 is growing in popularity and as it is the dawning of the digital intermediate, it's about time to bring back longer rolls of film! Is there any possibility of making mags of K40 and the new neg stocks like they did back in the heyday of Super 8 (I hope I hope I hope...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Zahn Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If you make a petition, I'll sighn it :D The Supermag 400 seems cool but the thing is who knows how many will actually be made and even more impotantly when people start to auction them off ebay jerks will make the closing bid so ridiculously high i may have to cry. I know it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted October 14, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 14, 2004 So recently I've seen posts here about a few companies that offer 60m/200 ft. rolls of super 8 film, including Andec in Germany which offers Fuji film that way. Please please please, Kodak, it seems that as Super 8 is growing in popularity and as it is the dawning of the digital intermediate, it's about time to bring back longer rolls of film! Is there any possibility of making mags of K40 and the new neg stocks like they did back in the heyday of Super 8 (I hope I hope I hope...)? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As with other forums and e-mails where these requests are discussed, I forward them to the key decision makers for the Super-8 product line. Retooling for larger cartridges is not a "drop in". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoct Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 As with other forums and e-mails where these requests are discussed, I forward them to the key decision makers for the Super-8 product line. Retooling for larger cartridges is not a "drop in". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you, John. I'm so glad you look out for us. I wish there WAS a way to form a petition to get a sense of how many super 8 users would benefit from Kodak providing 60m rolls of film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Schilling Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 200ft carts would be awsome. thats 10 full minutes at 24fps. the 400ft mag is too bulky, i have no need for 20 minutes loaded either. a ten minute mag is perfect for portability, filming live performances, or interviews. i would get a top loading camera in a second if 200ft mages came back :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Burke Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Is any one in the US selling custom 200' loads? Pro8mm maybe?? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Forget it guys. It just ain't gonna happen. I'm not against it, I just can't see holding out hope, and a petition is just going to annoy them into looking at Super 8 shooters as a bunch of whiners. This is not going to help Super 8 enthusiasts in the long run, in my opinion. Sometimes the squeeky wheel gets the grease, but other times, the wheel gets thrown away for a newer, quieter wheel! Sure, it would be terrific for those 67 guys out there that have cameras with this capability, and that are actively shooting Super 8, but there's just no way Kodak is going to tool up for such a small segment of the market. Same with sound film. The unfortunate thing is, a lot of the top S8 cameras didn't take 200ft carts, which is bizarre when you think about it, so all of us shooting on Nikon R10's, R8's, Bauer 750's, Canon 1014's, 814's, etc can't use them, and these are terrific cameras. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I agree with Matt. I hope Kodak maintains existing super8 stocks and offers as much support as possible to the labs that are developing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoct Posted October 16, 2004 Author Share Posted October 16, 2004 Gentleman, there's always room for options. The existence of a 60m mag should not threaten the craftsmanship of the cameras you hold dear. It would simply be another option for the super 8 shooter. Let's not speak so hypothetically, shall we? There's room for all possibility, as seen in the creative spirit that is Eastman Kodak which continues to push new boundaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Burke Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Again, what about a third party doing it? Pro8mm for instants. They seem to be the likely canidate. Perhaps someone else. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 If Pro8mm did it, you can bet it would end up costing you more for the mag and film than it would to buy a decent 16mm camera, mags & film stock. If you want Kodak to do more than they are now (which seems amazing to me, since they're really going out of their way to treat tehe Super 8 community like pro's, for such a small market), then there's one way to make it happen: Buy buttloads of film from them. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted October 24, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 24, 2004 If you want Kodak to do more than they are now (which seems amazing to me, since they're really going out of their way to treat tehe Super 8 community like pro's, for such a small market), then there's one way to make it happen:Buy buttloads of film from them. Matt Pacini <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks. Super-8 can provide a unique "look" for professional production, but despite some elements of the system costing less than Super-16, it may not really be the most cost-effective film format. And for image quality, "size does matter". When choosing a film origination format, look at all aspects of the production system, not just that you already have a Super-8 camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Schilling Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Thanks. Super-8 can provide a unique "look" for professional production, but despite some elements of the system costing less than Super-16, it may not really be the most cost-effective film format. And for image quality, "size does matter". When choosing a film origination format, look at all aspects of the production system, not just that you already have a Super-8 camera. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that having an S-8 camera, or five S-8 cameras.. is the barrier between S-8 and S-16. you can easily pay up to 20K plus for a S-16 cam, or $400 a day to rent a good one.. or you can own a top end S-8 with lots of features with that $400. It's good to cut your teeth by using whats most accessable and affordable.. usually the case when going from non film maker to film maker. Not everyone will get into motion picture film by jumping straight in with heavy expenses. I'm not trying to justify a 200ft cart, nor expect to see one come back.. but i will say that S-8 has a lot of potential to promote experimental film makers to 16mm. I am also very greatful with what is available in S-8.. hope it keeps progressing. When i progress to 16mm it won't be a crash and burn, but a smooth and exciting transition.. and I will have Super 8 to thank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Pacini Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 You can also pay as little as $300 for a 16mm camera. (I paid $331. for my Canon Scoopic M). I shot an entire feature on Super 8 (which is an insane thing to do), because I thought I'd have to afford around $25,000 to get a decent 16mm camera at the time. I was wrong. If I would have known what I do now, that I could get into a nice CP16 for under 2 grand, I would definitely have shot my feature in 16. And if you're going to shoot S8 neg stock, it's just barely cheaper to shoot S8 than it is 16mm when you figure in processing, etc. (especially if you have to rent a S8 gate for telecine). If you go with Pro8mm/Super 8 Sound it's EXACTLY as expensive as 16mm). If you get short 16mm ends (which you can't do with S8), the film & processing costs are probably 15%-50% over what you're going to pay for S8, unless you shoot only Kodachrome 40 (which is all I shoot in S8). S8 is great for starting out shooting film (& there are some really nice looks you can get with it if you're really careful) , I suggest it highly, but it's not like it's WAAAYYY cheaper to shoot than 16mm, especially if you're trying to do something serious that really needs to look nice. Matt Pacini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Schilling Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I have been watching 16mm cameras and a Scoopic went for more than $2000 the other day. but it is still true that you can find a reg 16 camera for less than $500. I've been looking to find a decent R16 to wet my beak into 16mm with. I'd say the major advantage for S-8 (at least in my experience) is quality DIY telecine, viewing and splicing equipment, projectors, quality lenses and features available. If i move to 16mm, i will be more dependant on expensive transfers.. in which i hold for special occasions with negetives in S-8. once i filnd a decent 16mm cam, i will dable with reversals for projection visuals, but will not have the freedom to upload, edit, sound sync my films as easily and cheaply as i can with S-8.. not to mention the quality i'm able to squeeze from the format with the best equipment out there at cheap prices. if i could do the same with 16, i would in a second.. but the cost of retooling what i have now but in 16mm would be 5 fold. I speak as an amature enthusiast with a full time day job. but will agree it is true that 16mm can be economically the same when comparing raw stock and high end telecine.. and much more appropriate for professional production.. but not as easy of a launch pad for a DIY film maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Wilson Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Skratch, There are alternatives to conventional approaches to shooting, processing and posting your films that can keep your costs a bit more manageable. As an example: I have a CP16R/A with 3 mags, 3 batteries, a power supply and a Canon Cine II lens that I picked up from the local film school for $375. I suspect that many schools have periodic closet cleanings, so deals are out there. I also used to have the Super 8 version of a Workprinter, which is a desktop telecine that works with a Macintosh or PC, which you would probably use to edit, anyway, since you mentioned telecine. The 16mm version is about $2000. As Matt mentioned, you can get short ends and recans of 16mm probably cheaper per minute than you can super8 from Kodak. You also have a far greater pallette when you work with 16mm. My understanding is that processing is on par, but I haven't sat down to work it out for myself. Might not be fully accurate. As you get out of the financial side, you begin to get into personal preference and convenience. Longer run times per magazine load, lens options, repair options, projection options. I know of a cheap Kem 16mm 4 plate editing bay, in case you're interested. I think it comes with splicers. I know it has a picture head and improved sound head that uses a stereo amplifier. A little creativity, patience and perserverance will land you a killer kit for very little more than you're spending on super8. And just to show I'm not prejudiced, I have a Sankyo Supertronic and a Canon XL310 for low light photography, both with anamorphic lenses, that I use as well. Just depends on the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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