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It's a sad shame


Guest Josh Gannon

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Guest Josh Gannon

I have just returned to these forums after a couple of months absents to find the same old crap being thrown around these forums.

 

I have been using Reds successfully for 6 months now and I know all the good points and bad points but no one seems to care, people are more interested in arguing. like it or not these cameras have pushed there way into the market and are here to stay for the time being.

 

Please people.... can we end this bullshit and start talking about what we can and can't do with this camera without every topic ending in the same old argument.

 

 

 

No need to reply Jim. I'm sick of the propaganda, I'm pretty sure I know your cameras better then you do.

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Guest Josh Gannon

No it's not. It's an attempt to get professionals to talk about the Red camera and its capabilities without the same old attitude.

 

I've got a lot of experience and information to ad to these forums. Take it or leave it.

 

 

 

 

This is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about. If you don't have anything informative to say then DON'T POST. It's a waste of your time and mine.

 

This is supposed to be a forum of professionals.

Edited by Josh Gannon
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If you don't have anything informative to say then DON'T POST. It's a waste of your time and mine.

 

This is supposed to be a forum of professionals.

 

That's exactly my point. you said nothing yet you had to write about other's attitude and as you can see that leaded to a (sort of) argument. Complaining is not the answer. If you have something useful to say (and i'm quite sure you have after months of practice) just do it, i want to hear your infos not your rants about the forum and that's what i think others want too. Allen Achterberg did a good job just some days ago without any comment about the state of the forum. That's all.

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I've got a lot of experience and information to ad to these forums. Take it or leave it.

 

Well then put your money where your mouth is. Add it. Post it. It won't cost you anything. What are you waiting for?

 

Until we have some hard evidence (apart from a couple of "set pieces" from the usual suspects), people are going to continue to be skeptical about the RED. Can you point me to a single piece of real world Red-derived footage I can actually view in real world environment?

 

I personally have had over thirty years of listening to the gushing of video enthusiasts who are in dire need of the services of an optician or a psychiatrist (or possibly both).

Edited by Keith Walters
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I'm with Josh on this one. People come and try to talk about real experiences with the camera and it is still quick to disintegrate into the usual petty argument type of thread. There are a few people specifically who are doing this and I wish the moderator would intervene.

 

This has always IMO been the most professional board for DP's so I'd like to see everyone act as professionals and use a bit of restraint/civility when posting here.

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Well then put your money where your mouth is. Add it. Post it. It won't cost you anything. What are you waiting for?

 

Until we have some hard evidence (apart from a couple of "set pieces" from the usual suspects), people are going to continue to be skeptical about the RED. Can you point me to a single piece of real world Red-derived footage I can actually view in real world environment?

 

I personally have had over thirty years of listening to the gushing of video enthusiasts who are in dire need of the services of an optician or a psychiatrist (or possibly both).

 

Here is a site where REd owners upload Red footage for you to download. In R3D, DPX,Tiff and smaller video files, free. You can view and tweak to your hearts content. But I somehow feel that 'real world environment' ( whatever that means) is a loophole you set up and this still won't be satisfactory.

 

http://www.redrelay.net/index.htm

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Here is a site where REd owners upload Red footage for you to download. In R3D, DPX,Tiff and smaller video files, free. You can view and tweak to your hearts content. But I somehow feel that 'real world environment' ( whatever that means) is a loophole you set up and this still won't be satisfactory.

 

http://www.redrelay.net/index.htm

 

Thanks for the link!

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I'm with Josh on this one. People come and try to talk about real experiences with the camera and it is still quick to disintegrate into the usual petty argument type of thread. There are a few people specifically who are doing this and I wish the moderator would intervene.

 

This has always IMO been the most professional board for DP's so I'd like to see everyone act as professionals and use a bit of restraint/civility when posting here.

 

With all due respect Chad some of the vitriol isn't unwarranted. The Rodney West thread is a perfect example. He posts 'Best key ever', then when you and others asks questions, nothing, zip, silence.

 

Whats wrong with not letting this forum devolve into another reduser? We all want professional discussion but why side with the people who just seem to want to convert people not based on fact but simply because they have found religion.

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Whats wrong with not letting this forum devolve into another reduser? We all want professional discussion but why side with the people who just seem to want to convert people not based on fact but simply because they have found religion.

 

I totally agree with you. I've been skeptical too, and I still feel I was in the right, but I hate to see someone come along and try to report an actual experience with the camera only for it to turn into name calling by the 3rd reply.

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I totally agree with you. I've been skeptical too, and I still feel I was in the right, but I hate to see someone come along and try to report an actual experience with the camera only for it to turn into name calling by the 3rd reply.

 

Agreed. Some are too quick on the trigger. Let me say that posting 'best ______ ever' without backup will get you nowhere here and thats okay with me because I believe when the REd gets more accepted this site will be one of the best places to get unbiased facts. Not being a skeptic myself on the RED, i will wait. I think jannard is waiting too, thats why he keeps coming back.

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With all due respect Chad some of the vitriol isn't unwarranted. The Rodney West thread is a perfect example. He posts 'Best key ever', then when you and others asks questions, nothing, zip, silence.

 

Hey please don't drag me into this. I asked questions and all I got was a bunch of bullshit girl school fighting.

 

Some of us professionals don't post our clients footage without approval.

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Thought I'd check in and see if anything has changed. Evidently not, but here's some leads to reliable information on RED productions. Our DP for The Black Messiah Murders which we begin pre-production this week, has already shot a feature film with the RED and is presently on his second RED feature film Montana Amazon http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1208711/ . I am not sold on the RED for our production but Jim thinks with the additional updates it will do a fine job. I am hedging my bet, tentatively scheduling cameras intended for a different picture (for a shoot in London/Ethiopia) or going to a 2 perf 35 for this film, just in case I'm not convinced about the RED.

 

I don't see how anyone expects to take anything seriously unless they have access to the screening room for the rushes of production shoots. This is why we are asking Grace & Wild to build a screening room so we can view 2K & 4K our rushes from post system. What people hope to get from extremely compressed, dithered, and very optimized data I can't imagine. There is so much noise from processing error and anomalies it is impossible to make anything but a speculative judgment. You can get a general feel from 720 or HD. Even when I gone from 2K proxy viewing to a 2k view of a 4K 12/14 bit color depth raw processed image I am overwhelmed by the difference. The only thing I believe is valuable on this forum are actual reports of production experiences with the camera.

 

Geezz guys, give it a rest. You need to get information from experienced credible DP's who are pushing the camera limits on the set and can provide objective critique of the product.

 

 

 

I totally agree with you. I've been skeptical too, and I still feel I was in the right, but I hate to see someone come along and try to report an actual experience with the camera only for it to turn into name calling by the 3rd reply.
Edited by Lance Flores
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Hey please don't drag me into this. I asked questions and all I got was a bunch of bullshit girl school fighting.

 

Some of us professionals don't post our clients footage without approval.

 

Rodney I'm just going with the facts. You posted you pulled the best key ever. Your words. But there are 3 or 4 people that asked you questions about that statement aside from the antagonizers ,who you could have ignored, and you chose to answer the antagonizers instead. I'm not trying to antagonize you Rodney but you started the thread, you got offended, came back when some people graciously tried to buffer the thing. Now you call it bulls**t girlfighting. The only one acting like a 'girl' is you, respectfully.

 

All you had to do was answer the question. If you can't post footage thats no excuse. Explain yourself thats all. The fact that you didn't offer any explanation caused this not me.

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Hi Rodney,

 

Please ask your clients if you can post a frame.

 

Stephen

 

 

Fair enough, I just asked. I doubt I will get a yes but I have the feeling a picture may be worth a thousand words.

 

And for the record, I think many agree that I am not the only bitchy girl here.

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Thought I'd check in and see if anything has changed. Evidently not, but here's some leads to reliable information on RED productions. Our DP for The Black Messiah Murders which we begin pre-production this week, has already shot a feature film with the RED and is presently on his second RED feature film Montana Amazon http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1208711/ . I am not sold on the RED for our production but Jim thinks with the additional updates it will do a fine job. I am hedging my bet, tentatively scheduling cameras intended for a different picture (for a shoot in London/Ethiopia) or going to a 2 perf 35 for this film, just in case I'm not convinced about the RED.

 

I don't see how anyone expects to take anything seriously unless they have access to the screening room for the rushes of production shoots. This is why we are asking Grace & Wild to build a screening room so we can view 2K & 4K our rushes from post system. What people hope to get from extremely compressed, dithered, and very optimized data I can't imagine. There is so much noise from processing error and anomalies it is impossible to make anything but a speculative judgment. You can get a general feel from 720 or HD. Even when I gone from 2K proxy viewing to a 2k view of a 4K 12/14 bit color depth raw processed image I am overwhelmed by the difference. The only thing I believe is valuable on this forum are actual reports of production experiences with the camera.

 

Geezz guys, give it a rest. You need to get information from experienced credible DP's who are pushing the camera limits on the set and can provide objective critique of the product.

 

Now this is the kind of elitist junk that wastes more forum space

All i need is to get experienced DP's to give me the answers. Well then lets sit and wait for the final word from these experienced DP's.god forbid any individual who isn't has anything valuable to say.

 

Redcode raw files are available in the link I posted. They are there for you to play with. They are raw files not compressed ( other than the cams wavelet cpmress), dithered or other wise. Just what the cam put out. Play with them and see what you get. Lance you can wait for the screening room to get built and the experienced dp's to tell you what to think.

Edited by Michael Peploe
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Now this is the kind of elitist junk that wastes more forum space

All i need is to get experienced DP's to give me the answers. Well then lets sit and wait for the final word from these experienced DP's.god forbid any individual who isn't has anything valuable to say.

 

Redcode raw files are available in the link I posted. They are there for you to play with. They are raw files not compressed ( other than the cams wavelet cpmress), dithered or other wise. Just what the cam put out. Play with them and see what you get. Lance you can wait for the screening room to get built and the experienced dp's to tell you what to think.

 

 

 

About what I expected. Take everything out of context so you can whine a little more. If your read the post you would have known that Jim had already shot a feature film and is on his second with the RED. Purchase or rent a camera and satisfy you self to your own expectations. I can't afford not to have a well experienced professional give me an evaluation. I'm responsible for other peoples investments.

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i have always tried to stay out of this bitchy Red stuff , but i dont want a see a frame on my 19" computer screen i want to a see a film out on a 40' wide screen . It should be a digital projection but it wont be because there arnt enough cinemas with that option so i have to compare Red [ DI out film ] with a 35mm the same . Until then all this talk is just really poop !! .

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About what I expected. Take everything out of context so you can whine a little more. If your read the post you would have known that Jim had already shot a feature film and is on his second with the RED. Purchase or rent a camera and satisfy you self to your own expectations. I can't afford not to have a well experienced professional give me an evaluation. I'm responsible for other peoples investments.

 

About what i expected too. Your first and second post a snobbish whine. And if you bothered to read my other posts I regularly rent the REd and like the Red images.

Edited by Michael Peploe
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i have always tried to stay out of this bitchy Red stuff , but i dont want a see a frame on my 19" computer screen i want to a see a film out on a 40' wide screen . It should be a digital projection but it wont be because there arnt enough cinemas with that option so i have to compare Red [ DI out film ] with a 35mm the same . Until then all this talk is just really poop !! .

 

And thats valid but 95% of content is made for bluray dvd, DVD, TV and web , with only hundreds that will ever be projected on a screen. Most people have home digital projectors, calibrated monitors, and large lcd displays they use for conforming, color correcting and viewing so judging quality for those people is perfectly valid too.

Edited by Michael Peploe
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i have always tried to stay out of this bitchy Red stuff , but i dont want a see a frame on my 19" computer screen i want to a see a film out on a 40' wide screen . It should be a digital projection but it wont be because there arnt enough cinemas with that option so i have to compare Red [ DI out film ] with a 35mm the same . Until then all this talk is just really poop !! .

 

I agree with you John. My point exactly. I need to see a high quality projection of a finish to make a determination about using the camera. Seems you're an elitist if you're not a true believer. Haven't checked this forum for a while.

 

By the way, I'll be in Paris to close with our European co-producer/distributor and will be in London to meet with our composer Dan Bewick, a U.K. producer we'll be working with on some projects, and so other friends and cast. Join us for a drink?

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But I somehow feel that 'real world environment' ( whatever that means) is a loophole you set up and this still won't be satisfactory.

Well, no, since I don't happen to have an Arrilaser and a movie theatre in my garage. :lol:

 

i have always tried to stay out of this bitchy Red stuff , but i dont want a see a frame on my 19" computer screen i want to a see a film out on a 40' wide screen . It should be a digital projection but it wont be because there arnt enough cinemas with that option so i have to compare Red [ DI out film ] with a 35mm the same . Until then all this talk is just really poop !! .

That was exactly my point.

I know there is plenty of footage available for download, but we have no way of knowing how representative it is of the RED's overall performance.

In the "real world" you have to shoot everyting that is in the script, not just the bits that you think will look photogenic.

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The only one acting like a 'girl' is you, respectfully.

 

What is wrong with girls!!!? *scowl*

 

Also it's been very much my impression that the flames about Red come from both sides.

Someone will try to post an objective view of their experiences on the camera and then as often as not someone will come in and say something to the effect of:

 

"Great to see someone giving their REALworld experiences of the camera and not just h8'ers and tools who just want to talk poop and down on it. The red camera is the BEST. and I feel bad for Janard having to deal with the scum and sissys on this forum"

 

..and things degenerate from there.

 

The trouble is that all debate about the thing has been polarised, so that nobody can actually have one.

 

It cuts both ways.

 

BTW, I'm sorry that my attempt at making up one of those postings isn't so good as I'm not great at imitating that kind of nonsense but I'm sure you have all seen it often enough to know what I mean. I'm always taken by the irony of these people reffering to h8-ers too as their posts often contain hate of some kind or another, often towards people who are not even engaged in the disscusion as we have seen in this very thread.

 

love

 

Freya

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I agree with you John. My point exactly. I need to see a high quality projection of a finish to make a determination about using the camera. Seems you're an elitist if you're not a true believer. Haven't checked this forum for a while.

 

Lance,

 

care must be taken whenever judging the merit of the camera based upon projection. It is not mathematically possible to have both satisfied *everywhere* with some of the current techniques used in signal processing in cameras:

 

(1) (more) accurate reproduction of luminance detail

(2) color fidelity near saturated primary colors

 

Hence, any novice analysis that sees the imperfection manifested in (1) or (2) may be wrongly attributed to the power of a camera.

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