Allen Achterberg Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 okay, I am shooting this piece for my Junior college class, My director insists on shooting some rediculous scenes. he has some interesting lighting schemes for me too. at first we were going to shoot on 16mm but all of a sudden he wants to do this dv. and he saw my last film which was on 16 and loved it. thats why he chose me to DP. as he is describing what he wants, I can already tell he is going for the impossible. I already told him I cant give him this Super glossy 35mm look he has in his head, and these shots with jibs and etc, we dont have the equipment, what do I do? He wants this scene outside of a hotel (WIDE!!!) where its lit with this ugly nasty green un corrected florescent look, I'm like ok...hmm let me look in the light kit...OH we have 2 500W Lowel Openfaced crap lights, one without barndoors...um, okay and a few other 250w lights. I told him its not gunna work out well, and if we got something going, DV wouldnt pick it up well anyway. But he INISISTS! what do I do? do I slap him? he is new to this all, and is trying too hard, he wants to look as professional as he can but all he is doing is giving me a headache. He also wants this scene inside a hotel where the practical light on the ceiling is Off, but yet, the ceiling be lit well because it will be in the shot, he wants some wierd deseign on the ceiling to be picked up sharp with the MINIDV camera, He is creating such a mess for me, I fear if I give him what he thinks he wants its gunna look like ARSCH (thats german for A s s) so someone give me some advice, at this point I will have to spend the rest of the semester running tests for this guy. thanks, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Well college IS the place for people to try, fail and learn. Is it possible to set up some kind of test where you basically try to create what he wants for the scene but with no action? If you can shoot that and show him what he's going to get he might change his mind. If he still insists, you might have a back up plan in mind because he might have to just see it in the monitor and then want to do something different causing a big delay. I've seen pro directors do that, but I guess sometimes you have too, because if it isn't working you have to do something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted October 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2004 You ask him what he wants, you tell him what is necessary to do what he wants, he either agrees with you or doesn't. If he doesn't believe you, then don't work for him. But just make sure that you know you are right when you advise him. If you're not sure, tell him so and agree to shoot a test to find out if it works or doesn't work. Worst case scenario, you shoot it knowing it won't turn out just to convince him that it wouldn't come out. Of course, with DV, he can see on the monitor if he's getting the shot or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Greg Gross Posted October 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hello Allen, HE"S THE DIRECTOR,YOU'RE THE DP. Two distinctly different roles. 1. Re-negociate and try to win him over for shooting in 16mm. Your counter- You can give him a closer look to what he wants to achieve by shooting in 16mm vs. mini-dv. 2. Can you use Color Correction Filter with ugly looking green exterior of hotel? Can the lowel's take maybe 600 watt lamps instead of 500's or maybe 750's ? What about the lights with 250's,will thay take higher rated lamps? How about large silvered reflectors? You can make barn doors and tape them to light fixture with gaffer's tape,position them etc. Do you think there is any possibility you could make your own light balloon or even rent one? Vision 500T? 3. Convince him to light practical and use it as part of light source to light design on ceiling. Maybe you'll want to use reflectors as rest of light to light design. 4. Hard Light? or Soft Light? ALLEN,FINISH THE PICTURE. STAY IN THE PICTURE KID! Greg Gross, Professional Photographer Student Director of Photography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 damn that was fast, i posted that like 30 minutes ago. well thanks for all the replies. yeah David, you have a good back up for me, I like the worst case scenario thing, might come down to this. But Im sure he wont have the image he wants, I will need a lot of Light to get him this, He wants the really wide, and he said as much detail as possible, and I told him that there wont be much considering he wants to shoot wide with DV, I hate shooting wide on minidv, it always looks really bad, there is soo much loss of detail that I get embarrassed when I show the stuff, so I am going to do my best to convince him to shoot 16mm. I want to shoot on 7218 and if we did shoot 16mm the guy who is bringing me the camera FOR FREE...will also bring me some lights, a 2k, and a tweenie kit. Which would please us both. I hope he will go for it, and if he doesnt I will beat the living, i mean i will resort to the Worst case scenario thing. Its hard working with older people because they always think I'm throwin out bull**** because Im younger, But I will do my best at convincing him to do this, its either the 16mm or we shooting on the DVX crap cam, thats broken, it rattle like a baby rattle, no joke. Well thank you everyone for the replies, much appreciated. Later on, Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I would have to disagree with the notion that shooting a wide angle shot on DV is somehow automatically a bad thing. The problem you have rather is you don't have enough light for the area. DV and 16mm can be made to look sharper with the careful use of Silhouette and edge lighting. If the character is to be in a dark area you can use smaller units to create pools of light on back ground objects that will create a percieved increase in sharpness due to the character being in Silhouette. You can use some fill or a backlight so you can see some of the character. A 1K Rock and Roll PAR can light a pretty big area. A DV camera might actually be better for this shot as they typically can handle flo's better and you can WB a little to their side. BTW, it's natural for the DVX-100 to make a rattling sound when you handle it, there is nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 HAHA, its natural for the DVX to rattle, thats funny, best laugh Ive had all day man, thanks for that one. anyways, if we have to shoot DV i wont have enough light because i wont be able to get the lights. Dont want to shoot this scene in DV for 2 reason, there is a decent amount of noticable quality loss when one is this wide for a shot (its pretty wide, FULL hotel shot) and the 2nd reason is the DV is not going to give me enough lattitude for this, remember I have a lack of light if I shoot dv, :( plus, it wont look that great regardless, Im shooting it 16mm, i just decided, the director doesnt have a choice anymore HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! but I'm going to make him fall in love with the Idea. and shorten the script, its over written anyways. ahhh, I'll figure something out, hopefully 16, Im sick of minidv! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Calmly and intelligently explain the problems and your solutions. If it's that much of a power struggle or other incompatibility tell him or her to find another DP. If you are sure that certain are not going to work, why waste your time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel Zyskind Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 To me it sounds like you're as stubborn as your director. All the best and good luck. Marcel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Greg Gross Posted October 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2004 I think I understand you're pain,I mean about the quality. If I shot it in mini-dv knowing I did'nt try hard enough for 16mm,I'd never be happy with it! Point well taken about wide angle,gentlemans post. I just shot some dv wide angles on location and they came out just fine. Of course you could always say "thats the way I wanted it to look"! That seems to be an easy cop out these days. I'm not an expert but my post was intended to stimulate your thinking process. I start off every photography project I do by thinking in the extreme and then working down to a practical method to shoot. Best regards for your project. I close with this quote: "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU DON'T SEE" _Rashid Elisha Greg Gross,Professional Photographer Student Cinematographer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Listen to David. For everything the guy asks for there is always a solution. The problem is that it usually costs too much time and/or money. But that is his decision, not yours. As the DP you are a craftsperson and an implementor. So if he asks for something then you tell him "Okay, here's the list of equipment I'll need and how much time to do it" and then let him decide. You can offer up some compromises to help him out, but this is the name of the game and it's his project. Your job is to help him fufill his vision. If that vision doesn't fit with yours and you can't deal, then perhaps it's best for you to leave the project. Otherwise suck it up and make the best of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 HAHA, its natural for the DVX to rattle, thats funny, best laugh Ive had all day man, thanks for that one.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not a joke, it's true.... http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#Strange_noises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Nash Posted October 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted October 23, 2004 It's true. I have no great love for Mini DV or for the DVX-100, but I can defend the rattle as legit. Something in the lens assembly disengages when the power is off, but when shooting it turns back on and the rattle ceases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 To me it sounds like you're as stubborn as your director. All the best and good luck. Marcel <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just as stubborn as the director? man, I just dont want him mad because I cant give him what he sees. I can do my best with what he have, but I am certain it won't be as pleasing. oh, you are right about the dvx, thats funny, ok well thanks everyone, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvin Pingol Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Not a joke, it's true.... http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#Strange_noises <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Woah! My JVC does this too... I wonder if it's a common thing for all pro-sumer "large" handheld camcorders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 It has something to do with the zoom/focus servo mechanism in the lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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