Manure

[David Mullen ASC]

I'd need one 60'x60' silk for Stage B and two or three for Stage C (if not something larger) -- I suggested it but was told that was out of our budget. Plus the problem on the main stage is that we have many days where we are dropping men or crates down from the ceiling by pulley wires, so I couldn't have the silk in their way. I had wanted to set up a system of sails that could be pulled across the stage ceiling like curtains but that was also rejected as too expensive, plus too much time to set up (we had only a couple of days to pre-rig that main stage.)

 

Unless it is something permanently in place, it is too time-consuming to fly in 60'x60' or 40'x40' silks for individual shots.

 

Plus the other problem is the lighting balloons, which are too big, hang too low, to get the silks under. They were a compromise when I was told we couldn't afford cyc lights for the entire stage. So it's a hodge-podge system of lighting that I'm dealing with.

 

If I had the budget, I would have had more Kino Blanket lights, no balloons, a string of cyc lights (a tungsten and HMI mix) and a giant silk on a curtain system.

[David Mullen ASC]

It's a world of manure, hence the color scheme... We had a similar restricted palette on "Norhtfork" except in greys instead of brown.

 

The story is about a group of manure salesmen working for an old scientist who dies, and the company is taken over by his daughter, who has to save it financially -- just at the time an invading force of modern fertilizer salesmen arrive to take over the market.

[Jonathan Bruno]

It's a world of manure, hence the color scheme... We had a similar restricted palette on "Norhtfork" except in greys instead of brown.

 

The story is about a group of manure salesmen working for an old scientist who dies, and the company is taken over by his daughter, who has to save it financially -- just at the time an invading force of modern fertilizer salesmen arrive to take over the market.

 

 

Sounds interesting. Thanks David.

[Matthew Buick]

I don't know if this'll be of any comfort to you, David, but the fact you can see the barndoors on those studio light doesn't bother me in the least, infact I feel it's an improvement. Me with my scant expirience, I have little idea how studio sets like this one are lit, if someone had asked me I would have said there were lights on the studio floor bouncing upward, now I understand better. Thank you, sir.

 

And five stars for the quality of your work. You really are one of the ASC's finest cinematographers. You are deserving of much more professional recognition.

 

 

Toodles! :)

 

 

P.S: I no longer blatantly wish to be a member of the ASC, my ultimate goal as a cinematographer is now to consistently produce material I am caompletely happy with.

[David Mullen ASC]

Gosh, when will production ever learn that working people to death will not make your film better, only worse.

 

Well, it's not really the production's fault -- you've got too few days for an ambitious script plus a lead actor of limited time availability. The only real solution is to either: (1) increase the budget (which doesn't really solve the problem of actor availability, but let's say there is some leeway there) to increase the number of shooting days, or (2) strip down the script either in terms of complexity of scenes, stunts, sets, characters, etc.

 

It's the basic problem all indie movies have, the number of shooting days they can afford doesn't match the complexity or scale of the script. And most indiefilmmakers would rather push things to the limit to get an ambitious vision across rather than pare things way, way down to what would be a comfortable shooting pace and schedule that the budget could allow.

 

This movie has an even smaller budget than "Assassination of a High School President" and there were no sets for that movie, only a few modifications to one or two rooms, it had a longer schedule, and I thought even that was too ambitious in terms of number of characters and scenes to cover. But when I heard that we'd only have 25 days for "Manure", I just had to shut up after awhile about how ridiculous that was because no one wanted to hear it, the budget was what it was and we'd all have to work with it. But I knew that the end result would be a lot of long shooting days.

 

I don't necessarily mind the challenge, it's safety I'm worried about. We're all driving home pretty exhausted every night, and many of us live some distance from Santa Clarita.

 

People say "but you had the same number of shooting days on Northfork " but in that case, from a cinematography standpoint, part of the time I just had to point the camera at the Rocky Mountains to get production value. The amount of lighting I had to do on that one was minimal compared to this one. To get a sense of the scale of this one, the crew list devotes two pages to listing the contact info for the set construction people, which is a first for any movie of mine.

[Max Jacoby]

I don't necessarily mind the challenge, it's safety I'm worried about. We're all driving home pretty exhausted every night, and many of us live some distance from Santa Clarita.

That's exactly my point, when sleep deprivation adds up it becomes very dangerous to personal safety. I think very often people fail to realize that making people work for 14-16 hours each day is playing with their lives.

[James Steven Beverly]

While I certainly hope no one gets hurt, I gotta tell you, JUST from the images you've posted, this looks like a project worth suffering for. I've never seen anything that looks quite like this except for possibly One From the Heart as I had said before. It's pure art and important in that it IS pure art. This is probably never gonna be a main stream film but for those people it does speak to, it will no doubt be something that inspires them and you can't ask more than that from a film. It really shouldn't be that big of a problem to take out the light reflections and replace them with reflections from your "sky" in post. What they just copy the sky, contour it to the windshield increase it's transparency and match-move it. That would probably hide most of the light reflection. Just outta curiosity, why, when this became apparent this was going to become a problem, didn't they take the windshields out of the cars and put the windshields in virtually?

[David Mullen ASC]

Just outta curiosity, why, when this became apparent this was going to become a problem, didn't they take the windshields out of the cars and put the windshields in virtually?

 

Money, both for taking windshields in and out, and also for adding them in post. I suggested it, but there were scenes where it would be better to have them in, so we'd be in a situation of having to either remove and add them, or have more standby cars with them removed permanently, and already we have to have five identical cars for the five salesmen.

 

It all comes down to money ultimately, and to time, which is related to money. We're all smart and experienced enough now to know the right way to do things, but we end up doing things in halfway measures because of being rushed or not having the money to do it right.

[Joe Taylor]

Haven't read all of the post but I'm sure it's been said again and again. The photography and set design simply looks amazing. It's obvious that shooting exteriors on set was a stylized decision. Every frame looks like a wonderful dream. Never seen anything quite like it.

 

This could finally bring you your Oscar, David. Way to go.

[James Steven Beverly]

Would it help to dirty up the windshields a bit? They are on farms and in a rural setting after all. A thin layer of "dust" that would help diffuse the refections might not be in-appropriate. My guess would be, because your all ARE smart and experienced, already suggested and rejected.

Edited June 15, 2008 by James Steven Beverly

[Adam Frisch FSF]

"Todays film's lack definition" - Gordon Willis.

 

This doesn't seem to lack definition, David. Looks great.

[Jason Anderson]

Because the RED prefers daylight-balance, I?ve been lighting all the day scenes with HMI?s, daylight Kinos, a Xenon, plus some tungsten lamps for a warm late afternoon color.

 

How do you determine the preference of a camera, was this the results you observed from having worked with the RED before?

 

How similiar is the concept of white balancing a video camera and the color temperature that a film stock is rated at?

 

If you shoot footage that is not balanced correctly, in either film or video, what are the side effects. I assume film takes more work to correct if you don't get the look you wanted initially. Is it correct to say that you always want to film it as close to the desired end result as possible. Is a correct white balance cleaner off the chip than re balancing in post?

 

Jason

[Saul Rodgar]

That's exactly my point, when sleep deprivation adds up it becomes very dangerous to personal safety. I think very often people fail to realize that making people work for 14-16 hours each day is playing with their lives.

 

Alas, such is the feature film industry standards here in the US. I personally have gotten pretty fed up with that and currently only work on smaller projects, which incidentally are a better way to climb the ladder. When you have old timers such as Haskell Wexler starting grass roots industry movements to keep production hours at no more than 12 hrs a day and not getting anywhere with it, you know there is something wrong.

 

I have met plenty of people in the industry who have that "can survive it all" attitude, very much like doctors who practice ER marathon shifts. Never mind that every time I see them, they seem to have aged considerably and look either bloated and heavier or gaunt and sickly, but always VERY, VERY tired. So long hours and unhealthy lifestyles now have become part of the culture of making feature films in the US, embraced by the same people who would fare better ultimately if shorter production hours would become standard. Why is it that those at the bottom are usually conned into thinking that the current geopolitical situation is what is in their best interest? But I digress.

 

If I ever go back to working on features I plan on getting a small RV to camp out near the set. :blink:

Edited June 15, 2008 by Saul Rodgar

[James Steven Beverly]

If I ever go back to working on features I plan on getting a small RV to camp out near the set. :blink:

 

Actually, that's not a bad plan, course in LA, the cops might hassle you if you park on the street, they're like that.

I hate to say it but when we start production in November on Blood Moon Rising, I can almost guarantee we'll be shooting 16 hr days. simply because we'll have enough money for 7 to MAYBE 14 shooting days and there is no way in Hell we'll be able to get everything we'll need even with in-camera editing, limiting takes and a 6 to 1 shooting ratio. Sometimes you have to sacrifice and, yes, take risks, to accomplish a goal. There is NEVER enough money on indy shoots, so you do what you have to do to make it happen and sometimes that means compromise and SOMETIMES that means pushing the people you work with harder than you'd want to. The Polish Brothers have a unique and uncommon vision and voice in their work and because of that, their films will never be block busters so they will always be shooting small independently funded pictures but thank God they are able to accomplish that even though it's tough to do with a small budget. We NEED films like theirs to keep the art of film making healthy and vibarent . I sure don't want to see anyone hurt but there are LOTS of people that work 16 hour days with no artistic fulfillment or recognition. At least in this case, what they create will inspire and bring joy to a lot of people. I think ultimately, that's a fair trade off.

[David Mullen ASC]

The thing is, Steven, that you're thinking like a director, who often maybe makes one movie every two or three years. I shoot about three features a year, and most crew people work on several features a year.

 

So while pushing a vision by means of an exhausting marathon effort may be admirable and necessary in an indie director, film crews have to pace themselves because they do this sort of production work daily, for months and months, year after year. Plus many of them are doing more dangerous physical labor than the filmmakers are, like rigging from condors, dealing with electrical power, etc.

 

For many of them, even an artistic movie is just another credit on a resume, they won't get or take any credit if it is a work of art, only the above-the-line people listed in the main credits of the movie get the lion's share of the accolades, the rewards, the critical acclaim. So while my motivation for doing a work of visual art like this is clear (and I'm grateful for the opportunity) it gets less clear as you go down the ladder on the production as to why someone should put up with hard working conditions.

 

And Max is right, eventually the artistic quality itself starts to suffer as you mentally and physically burn out. So there is a good reason why you shouldn't beat up everyone on these productions, from both a safety standpoint and an artistic one. Certainly some performances start to drop off after a long working day (and certainly they look less good on camera at that point...)

 

It also depends on the overall length of the production. I've done some horribly hard 3-week features, but then you're done after three weeks -- you collapse at the finish line and sleep for three days straight. It's a lot harder to do it for four, five, six weeks, etc.

 

The "trade-off" starts looking less fair when someone gets into a car accident on the way to or from work because they are too sleepy to drive.

[Saul Rodgar]

At least in this case, what they create will inspire and bring joy to a lot of people. I think ultimately, that's a fair trade off.

 

I just drove by the set of Terminator 4, Project Angel. At 8,45 (my time) on a Sunday night, the set was lit. Ouch. David is right. We crew members have it tough. After working 14-16 hrs a day on a feature to make the director famous (or "to bring joy to a lot of people"), we still have to go home and heal the broken body, just to do it all over again the next day, for months on end. Try doing that for a couple of years, you'll see what we mean. After that, "bringing joy to a lot of people" takes the back seat to getting some rest. :P

Edited June 16, 2008 by Saul Rodgar

[James Steven Beverly]

Dude, I've done grip work and I mean low man on the totem pole, wrapping cable, carrying c-stands and sand bags laying dolly track grunt work. I think EVERY director should be required to have at least 3 shoots as a grip or PA before they can become directors because you REALLY appreciate what your crew goes through if you've ever had to do it yourself. I had those coming home at dawn days sleeping for 3 or 4 hours and heading back to the set experiences. I hated it BUT I learned respect for the guys and gals that do it. I think a smart director has the ability to make everyone on his crew understand that the work they do is every bit as important as his so they want to do their best to make the project a success. Crew people rarely get the atta boys they deserve and will put up with a lot more hardship if they know someone at least appreciates their efforts.

[Mike Williamson]

Thanks for taking the time to post, David, the stills look great as usual. I think the movie is going to have a very unique look when all is said and done, good luck with the rest of the schedule, hopefully it eases up a little at some point.

[Jamie Lewis]

As usual, great thread, shots and diary. Thanks, David!

[John Holland]

Hello David i have just checked out the sizes of the two stages you are shooting on at Melody Ranch they arnt small , but do you think your life would have been made a bit easier if this had been shot at a studio with larger stages ? or is that just a silly question ? I do understand budget restrictions involved here .

[Bruce Taylor]

there is a good reason why you shouldn't beat up everyone on these productions... The "trade-off" starts looking less fair when someone gets into a car accident on the way to or from work because they are too sleepy to drive.

 

I know this has already been well hashed over, but I feel the need to comment.

 

Most other industries in the US have strong financial dis-incentives to overwork their employees. Worker's comp insurance rates, the threat of lawsuits and concern for employees well-being work to keep the work day reasonable.

 

The 14-16hr workday should be banned as a health and safety issue.

 

Bruce Taylor

[Brad Grimmett]

Hi Mr Grimmett,

I just finished an 8 week feature with the RED as the A Cam/Steadi op. Kids, low-mode..running..with animals and water.. The camera held up great..be mindful of the vents along the bottom of the camera for the water housing..this will play greatly in the time set up. The camera gets a little "squirrelly" when panning side to side..be mindful of the gimbel hand input..for me it was about 1/8th of normal input..tricky. The camera can be used with a simultaneous double battery system from AB which is useful when changing batts..cause the system takes 80 seconds to reboot if you are only using one. If you use the dual mount, it makes the mass more easily manageable on the post..bringing it closer to the mass of a film camera.

Just my two cents..

cheers,

adam ward

Thanks for the info Adam. Did you have to replace the body at any point? Did you have a backup?

 

Sorry to hijack the thread David. I think the stills look great and as always I'm excited to see what you and the Polish brothers do together.

[Evan Winter]

Hi David,

 

The stills look outstanding. Incredible work you're doing here! It also feels like the cyc is much more a part of the overall landscape as well. I also want to thank you for taking the time out to tell us all about your experiences on set and you may want to consider putting together a book of all your on-set diaries. :) Film students would chew off one of their arms to get as close to the nuts and bolts of a production as you take us.

 

But anyhow, thanks for the diaries, thanks for being so willing to share, and I wish you all the best on getting through this strongly and safely!

 

Evan W.

[John Sprung]

But I can?t wait for our hot-swappable 2-battery rig that we purchased to show up.

David --

 

Did it show up? If so, how did it work for you? If not, I have a hot swap box that you could try. I built it for a GPS/laptop computer rig about 15 years ago. I used it for 12 volts with XLR-4 connectors, IIRC that's what the Red takes. But I'm pretty sure the capacitor is rated for something like 25 or 35 volts.

 

Edit: Come to think of it, maximum current thru the inductors may be an issue.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

Week Four

 

We’ve been hopping around more and more, getting pieces of different scenes on different sets, including a lot of bluescreen work to deal with story locations that are too large and expensive to build.

 

Monday and Tuesday involved bring live cattle on the landscape set on Stage C. We had a grassy plain on Monday which infortunately, though the grass was spray-painted brown, seemed to drive most of the cows nuts, running around the perimeter (which is a plywood ramp leading up to the backing, not designed for the weight of multiple cows, though it held up) and eating the brown grass and brown leaves on the set. We ended up taking most of the cattle off of the set and just using a very calm milk cow in two scenes.

 

We then ran outside to our big 30’x60’ bluescreen, which is tied to a soundstage wall. We use it for any large shots of action against locations that will have to be created in post. In this case, the scenes took place at the big gates leading to the Roses Manure factory. We try to shoot these outdoor bluescreen scenes in late afternoon when the side of the building and the ground in front are shadowed by the soundstage. I often have to add additional 20’x20’ and 12’x20’ bluescreens on the sides to cover all the action. Usually we just use available skylight.

 

We ended the day with a funeral scene back on the prairie set on Stage C, lit for late afternoon, followed by a gravestone scene that takes place months later. I tried to make it a sunrise scene by laying a 10K on the ground at the top of the ramp, pointed into the lens. I was a bit rushed, being the end of a 14-hour day, so I didn’t quite get the balance right to make it more realistic, but it looked interesting at least.

 

The prairie set was turned into a cow pasture on Tueday, with a dirt floor covered with bits of straw and surrounded by fencing. This was a lot better for the cattle we brought in, compared to the open prairie space. The set was full of cattle, which was interesting to say the least. Later we shot a scene in an empty pasture where a farmer stops our main characters, crawling on the ground, from stealing his cow pies, firing a shotgun in their direction. I lit the two manure salesmen in frontal hard light so I could have the farmer throw a shadow over them. Their POV of the farmer was therefore a low-angle with the sky and sun behind the farmer. To get the shot, I put a 12’x12’ painting of the sky above the farmer’s head, tilted down, and cut a hole in it so I could stick a 1K Parcan through it for the effect of the sun hitting the lens.

 

The day ended after 11.5 hours because all the power went out in all the stages. We thought was a brown-out maybe at the city substation, but later I found out it was due to an air conditioning unit on Stage C shooting out a six foot flame and tripping all the breakers. Either way, an act of God sent us home early for once.

 

On Wednesday we shot on a cabbage farm set as Mark Polish attempts to sell to a farmer. Then we attempted to shoot some more scenes where stunt men parachute into a field, but the parachutes tended to catch on the corners of the Kino blanket lights, so it took a number of takes to get it right. We ran outside at sunset to shoot against the shaded bluescreen stage wall, for a scene in a train yard – the set consisted of a sliding traincar door and a platform. Then we did a scene where our main characters work inside the Roses Manure factory (to be created in post), filling up bags of manure. It was night by then, so I brought out one of our portable HMI balloons to light to scene from overhead, as if the factory had a soft overhead source.

 

We finished the week on Thursday because we have to switch from a Sunday to Thursday schedule, though I don’t recall the reason. Stage C was now filled partially with a pumpkin farm where a fight scene takes place. Mike Most came out to set to visit me on this day. In the middle of the day we went into Stage A, which is really the mill for the art department, but one half was cleared for a small bluescreen stage where we set up some factory machine at work. At the end of the day, we returned to this stage to shoot a scene that takes place in Heaven, which was tough to figure out how to do. We first thought about using our brown cyc paintings for the background, but they were too small, but the efx man Steve was concerned that he couldn’t pipe in enough low-laying smoke to cover a larger area. So we decided to use the bluescreen as a background with clouds of smoke for the floor. The scene begins with three men rising up through the groundcover of clouds, as if on an elevator, and stepping onto the clouds. Since the clouds had to reach the knees of the actors, I figured that I’d have to lift them somehow onto a platform that was six feet tall so they could appear as if coming through a floor. After considering a scissor lift or forklift to raise the actors, I decided to use a crane platform in a teeter-totter rig to lift them smoothly to the platform. So Brad, our key grip, got a Nike crane with a standing platform, with just enough anchored chain to keep the platform from popping even higher once the weight of the men moved off of the platform when they stepped off. The trick was to somehow hold three feet of clouds of smoke to the top of the 6’ tall deck that they rise up and step off onto, rather than fill the whole stage with 9’ tall clouds. We put some wooden side panels on the deck to hold in the smoke. We then broomed the whole rig to do a wider shot of the men now walking through Heaven, which involved adding clouds to the whole stage floor. These two shots took a lot of time to set up because we had to keep making adjustments between the takes to get all the elements to work. Another 14-hr. day...

 

The photos I'm posting this week are all from the RED camera, but reduced to 700 pixels across, sharpened, diffused, compressed heavily for the web, color & contrast played around with, etc. Any clipping you see is due to me cranking up the contrast to get the sky to burn out a little, there is little clipping in the original files.

 

There are two bluescreen shots, one of cars driving through the gate, the second of men filling bags -- I took out the bluescreen color of that second one and turned it into a sepia tone for this post, but the final effect would have a factory interior as a background.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the sunrise shot I lit very quickly, by putting a 10K on the ground, with a disk of 250 diffusion in the scrim holder, plus dimmed down: