Eclair ACL S16 or CPR S16?

Dave Bourbois · February 16, 2004

Visual Products has a pretty good offer for a Super 16 version of an Eclair ACL 1 with ground glass and 2 modified mags, and a Super 16 version of a Cinema Products R with 2 mags and a 150 Angenieux lens. Both are about 6,500. Which is a better camera? I've heard that the Eclair ACL had a problem with the 400ft mags, as far as the weight and that you're better off with 200ft. The only issue I've heard with the CPR is the noise. Which is more egronomical. Pros and Cons of both? Many thanks.

-Dave

Visual Products 16mm page

Mitch Gross · February 16, 2004

I personally think the Eclair is the better camera. I like the registration and quick change mags. The motor is smaller and the entire mechanism more refined and certainly quieter. The mags take a little bit of getting used to, but I've never had a problem even when using some of the "inferior" British mags. The Eclair is much easier to load and there are many more accessories available for it. It weighs substantially less and is a much lower profile than the CP-16R. Depending on the generation of the CP there can be real difficiencies with issues such as shutter blur or videotap availability (butterfly shutter and optical prism block issues). These are not things that can be upgraded in the camera--it's either the camera has an issue or it doesn't.

If I had to make such a decision I would always go with the Eclair ACL, but that is my personal bias.

Dan Salzmann · February 17, 2004

I agree with Mitch and just want to add that it is important to have the Kinoptik finder on the ACL.

It is brighter and able to be oriented.

Carl Durrenberger · February 18, 2004

I have only used the CP16R in my limited Reg-16 shooting experience and I like it quite a bit. It is rugged and reliable. Parts are readily available. There are several experienced and excellent service technicians around who can keep them running in top, as-new peformance. The entire system is well-integrated, from battery to crystal motor, to video tap port, to the handgrip, to the excellent and highly adaptable lens mount. I love it.

Okay, so a mattebox and rods can be hard to find. Make your own rods for your Petroff or Chrosziel Follow-focus and use a clamp-on mattebox. Or talk with Jim at VP about having them make one for you. I would assume that it's really not that big of a deal compared to lugging around outboard battery belts, adapting lenses to the inferior Eclair lens mount, and gambling with the dreaded underpowered ACL-I motor that is reputed to burn out when constantly pulling 400-ft loads. However, please keep in mind that I have never used the Eclair ACL. I do not mean to slight what may be a very fine camera just based on hearsay and conjecture.

Many people complain that the CP16 is tedious to thread. This may be a valid concern in documentary, run-and-gun shooting scenarios, but it's never been a problem for me when shooting narrative short films. The thing that is cool about the CP is that loading the magazines is a total breeze (and the mags are cheap!) -- and that's the part that must be performed in total darkness (where loading is HARD). The threading through the camera can be done on the set in the light and it's really not that difficult -- just time consuming.

Noise has never been a problem for me. Both my CP's run very quietly -- but they are also kept in good shape.

The famous shutter smear problem afflicts all bowtie-shutter CP16R's, although with varying degrees of intensity depending on the peculiar geometry of any given camera (yes, there were significant manufacturing inconsistencies!). Some bowtie cameras smear the highlights a lot, others smear hardly at all and only under certain focal length & aperture circumstances.

My first CP16R had extremely intense shutter smear, something that is quickly and easily verified with a smear test that any good CP16 technician can perform in minutes. Basically, they check to see if the shutter closes over the gate completely. If it doesn't completely close, then you get light streaming across frames, usually in the upper righthand corner, although the location can shift depending on mechanism timing. This manifests itself as highlight smearing on your footage. It is very irritating.

Luckily, every CP16R with a bowtie shutter can be modified to eliminate this smear artifact by basically extending the shutter blades, closing down the shutter angle from nominal 156-degrees to the Bolex-like 135-degrees. This absolutely eliminates the problem. Paul Hillman at Visual Products is your man and if you buy from VP, I would not even consider shutter smear an issue at all. He will make sure it doesn't happen.

The shutter smear problem was deemed a show-stopper by the BBC in the eighties, causing them to promptly return a huge order of CP16R's that they had just purchased from Cinema Products. This prompted a redesign of the camera to the 170-degree "half moon" shutter that obviated the smear problem (although it made the timing train less robust, from what I gather from Paul Hillman and Ken Hale).

Find out if the Super16 CP that Visual Products is selling is the 135-degree modified shutter model or the later 170-degree "half-moon" model. They will probably charge you less for the modified bowtie configuration than the "half moon," and depending on how concerned you are about interframe strobing (which is more intense the narrower the shutter angle) versus budget, you can make your decision. I shoot with one of each and only I can ever tell a difference, and then only in very specific sorts of situations.

I have never had anyone who has viewed my footage complain about the registration of the CP16. I tend to laugh at people who worry about that too much. You're going to pick up more registration error in telecine, printmaking, and projection than a well-tuned (and threaded) CP16 will ever produce natively in-camera. Just talk to a camera technician to hear about the ridiculous hoops they have to jump through to get an SR to register properly. I think registration is the biggest "red herring" issue that people have with the CP16, or with cameras in general. Keep it maintained and adjusted correctly, use fresh film, and form your loop correctly and you'll be fine. (DO NOT skip the lower rollers as some suggest -- unless you want loop instability!). There are bigger fish to fry, in my opinion.

You can use just about any lens you want on a CP16 without too much trouble. There is an excellent postive-locking CP/Arri-B adapter that you can get that will let you utilize the best Zeiss, Cooke, or HEC Angenieux glass out there. There is also a CP/Nikkor adapter that will let you use the big Nikkor telephotos (such as the 300mm/4 or 2.8) with it for those soft, lo-con, romantic, backlit afternoon walk-in-the-park tryst shots that no character-driven film should be without.

Finally, let's talk about support. Between Whitehouse AV and Paul Hillman at Visual Products, the CP16 is a camera that keeps on running and running. When I talk to Paul, he cites CP's and Aatons as some of the easiest cameras to work on with the easiest parts to find. He loves them!

Paul can add a PL-mount, a video tap (hardwired, wireless, and perhaps even color, if you talk with him about it!), and a speed control port to a CP16 if you need it, too, further expanding its options as a full-featured camera system.

I thought a lot about which camera to buy and in the end, I chose the CP16R. I have not regretted it at all. However, if I were shooting handheld day in and day out, I might have more seriously considered the Aaton or the Eclair ACL or any of the coax-magazine design cameras. But for my style of tripod/dolly-mounted indie narrative filmmaking, the CP16R is my loyal workhorse.

steve hyde · January 1, 2007

...a very informative post Carl. Thanks!

Steve

Kenny N Suleimanagich · January 1, 2007

Keep in mind ALL CP-16 cameras are Crystal Sync, with easily available parts from VP and other various places (whitehouse, Alan Gordon, etc). Another thing I like are the onboard batteries, which though arent as long-lasting, if you recell them with Lithium-Ion you can get about 2 or 3 Mag's worth. Another (though sort of novelty) availability for the CP is the ability of using Mitchell mags(which are dirt cheap) that can be sometimes found in 1000ft sizes. Just think about what you need, my CP-16 is about as quiet as an Éclair ACL, and when you get the hang of it, can be threaded in about a minute.