another problem!

tom doherty · September 30, 2008

a few months ago i posted on here , having overexposure issues with my nizo 801. i kindly got told to buy some new lightmeter batteries (and definitely bought the right ones). since then i decided to shoot some super8 abroad, in barcelona, and in krakow. altogether shot about 18 minutes of film, and got it all telecine'd by the widescreen centre. was unbelievably dissapointed and gutted when footage like this came back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b011rWkQqns

out of 18 minutes of super 8, i got approximately 2.30 minutes worth of usable footage(which i have since edited into a film, and might post on here soon) the rest being completely overexposed (one whole tri-x roll was completely blank). the only usable footage was shot in shade, and not in open spaces. after losing out on all this footage (and the money!) i am extremely gutted.

does anyone know what could have caused the footage to turn out like this????

thanks in advance

tom.

Oliver Knights · September 30, 2008

Hi,

Looks like the light meter on your Nizo is stuck wide open! Is it? That's why only shadowy footage looks ok, can you confirm if the needle moves when going from dark to light? Real shame this happened! Without meaning to offend, you gotta check these basic things out before you burn through a tonne of important footage....!!! Super8 is just the same as any of the larger film formats, tests and checks apply especially with 30 year old cameras.

Feelin' ure pain though

Regards

Alessandro Machi · October 1, 2008

Hi,

Looks like the light meter on your Nizo is stuck wide open! Is it? That's why only shadowy footage looks ok, can you confirm if the needle moves when going from dark to light? Real shame this happened! Without meaning to offend, you gotta check these basic things out before you burn through a tonne of important footage....!!! Super8 is just the same as any of the larger film formats, tests and checks apply especially with 30 year old cameras.

Feelin' ure pain though

Regards

Yeah, that would be my guess as well and I agree with the editorial part as well.

tom doherty · October 28, 2008

pretty sure your right. only shadowy or footage in the shade(or even indoor footage) can be seen.

also checked the needle, and it doesnt move when going from dark to light.

any ideas if it can be repaired or serviced?

if so, where (in the uk if possible) and how much will this cost approximately?

really dont want to give up on this

again thanks for the help,

tom

Edited October 28, 2008 by tom doherty

Oliver Knights · October 28, 2008

pretty sure your right. only shadowy or footage in the shade(or even indoor footage) can be seen.
also checked the needle, and it doesnt move when going from dark to light.

any ideas if it can be repaired or serviced?

if so, where (in the uk if possible) and how much will this cost approximately?

really dont want to give up on this

again thanks for the help,

tom

Hi;

Try these guys in London http://www.sendeancameras.co.uk/ They repair Nizo's and Canons mainly, did a good job with my Canon 1014XLS, bought it back from the dead in fact!

Films a steep learning curve but it really pays you back with interest when you learn how to control it....

Regards

Mark Dunn · October 28, 2008

3 or 4 stops at least.

Also, did you transfer at the wrong speed, 18 at 24, for example/ It looks undercranked.

tom doherty · October 29, 2008

Hi;

Try these guys in London http://www.sendeancameras.co.uk/ They repair Nizo's and Canons mainly, did a good job with my Canon 1014XLS, bought it back from the dead in fact!

Films a steep learning curve but it really pays you back with interest when you learn how to control it....

Regards

oliver - thanks, checked the website, and will give them a call tommorow. thanks for the advice.

mark - sorry, what do you mean transfer at the wrong speed? it was shot 18 fps, not sure about telecine details - was done by the widescreen centre. was edited in 24fps.

thanks for all help

Simon Wyss · October 29, 2008

I believe Mark means that perhaps your camera exposed for 24 fps but run at 18. That'd be another 33 percent more light.

If I can give you advice: Forget Super-8, switch to Double-8. There you have really fine cameras, solid and reliable, with interchangeable lenses. I can offer you - for instance - Bolex-Paillard H 8 Reflex (I have three of them), an Agfa Movex Reflex that pulls through 2000 frames on one wind, or if you want one of the Bolex-Paillard pocket cameras like B 8 (two-lens turret). Or - the very compact 16-mm film camera of Eumig. Or - you start with a simple Bolex-Paillard H 16, bodies are available for £ 200. Double-Eight raw stock: Fomapan R(eversal) 100, Ektachrome 64 T(ungsten), and more.

Oliver Knights · October 29, 2008

Hi;

Wow Simon that's some nice poaching right there! Tom check out DS8 if you like the sound of it, I believe as great a format as DS8 is on paper you will be living inside an even narrower niche than S8 already is! as far as stocks, labs, and service are concerned. S8 has a much broader user base and that's a big deal...

Regards

Oliver Knights · October 29, 2008

Simon Wyss;

"If I can give you advice: Forget Super-8, switch to Double-8. There you have really fine cameras, solid and reliable, with interchangeable lenses. I can offer you - for instance - Bolex-Paillard H 8 Reflex (I have three of them), an Agfa Movex Reflex that pulls through 2000 frames on one wind, or if you want one of the Bolex-Paillard pocket cameras like B 8 (two-lens turret). Or - the very compact 16-mm film camera of Eumig. Or - you start with a simple Bolex-Paillard H 16, bodies are available for £ 200. Double-Eight raw stock: Fomapan R(eversal) 100, Ektachrome 64 T(ungsten), and more."

Oops I see you're talking about Double-8 not double super 8, my mistake.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Oliver Knights

wolfgang haak · October 29, 2008

Tom,

do some practical testing. I've got a Nizo 481 knocking around here, from the chassis this is very similar to your 801.

Aperture testing:

Without film in, open the film loading bay, and turn the camera on. If you have a VarioShutter lever (where the grip meets the camera, left hand side, for manual fade-outs), pull it back and press the little button besides it. This opens the shutter permanently. Set the intervalo timer to single shot and hold the trigger.

Look through the loading bay directly through the lens, as you move the camera from dark to light, and watch if you can see the aperture open and close. It should be really quick and responsive, and close virtually completely if you point the camera to a light bulb.

This will tell you if the aperture is working correctly.

I may be able to mail you some pictures of mine later on today if you like.

With the variolever and intervalo timer back in normal position, squeeze the trigger (look through bay). At different running speeds you should notice how the shutter has different speeds. (best done on a tripod against an even target, set the aperture to a fixed setting (dial left top) and observe if the "average" brightness through the lens changes when filming at 54fps/18fps.

Not scientific approach, but a good starting point.

Light meter testing: (in absence of a light meter)

Pop a cartridge in, exposed or otherwise so the camera takes correct reading of the notches. Set against an even surface (wall) and take a reading of the aperture. (film speed set to 18 fps) Current shutter speed is now 1/36s

Take a (digital) slr camera take reading from same wall, setting camera to same ISO as your film, speed to 1/35 or nearest setting and compare aperture reading.

Not scientific, but you should be able to work out if the camera light meter does stupid things.

hope it helps,

Wolfgang

Simon Wyss · October 29, 2008

Why not Double-Super-8 ? I have a small russian Zenit for that format. There were not so many cameras around: Pathé WEBO DS8, Eastern Germany made one or two (Pentacon), there is the Canon Scoopic DS8 and Arri had a tiny number of Arriflex 16 built in DS8, I think 15 pieces all in all. Rudolf Muster in Selzach, Switzerland, sells converted Bolex cameras.

Francis Kuhn · October 29, 2008

mark - sorry, what do you mean transfer at the wrong speed? it was shot 18 fps, not sure about telecine details - was done by the widescreen centre. was edited in 24fps.

thanks for all help

Hi Tom,

Mark was referring to the frame rate your film was telecined at. All of the motion is sped-up a bit because the transfer was not done at the same frame rate the film was shot at.

It appears your camera was set to shoot at 18fps, then the transfer was done at 24fps. The telecine should have also been done at 18fps to make the motion look natural. I'm guessing the transfer house assumed you had shot it at 24fps and set that as the transfer rate. Adding those extra 6 frames of motion into each second of playback makes everything look like it's moving faster.

-Fran