Jump to content

Interesting Red Commercial...


Evan Winter

Recommended Posts

Well, the end credit says it's an "unofficial" spot so Jannard & Company has probably not endorsed it.

 

I wouldn't necessarily blame the blah skintones on the camera either. I think the flat 2D lighting in the close ups, makeup, and the post grading (or lack of) have more to do with that.

 

Interesting that they credit two second camera assistants but no first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm not sure why there should be an excitement about trying to replace film, since the RED footage I've seen to date does have a different look to film. To date, that subtle "sheen" that film currently seems to have appears to be missing from the digital material. It's not better or worse than film, just different.

 

As long there is a difference people will wish to exploit it for creative reasons, just they continue to shoot 8mm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But it's not us who said that RED is better or worse....

 

 

THEIR commercial implies that RED is replacing film!

 

Thay didn't said:

RED is a just a new diferent thing, that you can ad to your pallete of tools.....

They acctualy directly implied who should be considered as a winer and who as a loser in the SAME arena !

 

 

Pretty dissapointing if RED menagment is behind such an idea...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure why there should be an excitement about trying to replace film, since the RED footage I've seen to date does have a different look to film.

Because (as clearly evidenced in this ad), it's a big ego trip for many involved, to think that they're part of a "digital revolution" which film people aren't a part of, and that they're going to overthrow the establishment and be the new filmmaking visionaries, since obviously everyone shooting film is a dinosaur, unable to adapt. That's the really clever bit of RED's marketing; tapping into that indie mindset that's been floating around for the last decade or so, and promising them that this camera is their fast-track ticket to being recognized.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because (as clearly evidenced in this ad), it's a big ego trip for many involved, to think that they're part of a "digital revolution" which film people aren't a part of, and that they're going to overthrow the establishment and be the new filmmaking visionaries, since obviously everyone shooting film is a dinosaur, unable to adapt. That's the really clever bit of RED's marketing; tapping into that indie mindset that's been floating around for the last decade or so, and promising them that this camera is their fast-track ticket to being recognized.

 

Let's not group all Red owners or shooters into this stereotype you keep talking about. There are plenty of serious individuals who like the Red camera because it offers the ability to create beautiful images in a 35mm format with all the benefits of digital origination and RAW post control, at an affordable price. It's no mystery that those attributes would generate a big following.

 

And Red is not unique in having a large cult-like following in the tech world. Look at Mac users. They are constantly trying to diss PC users. They throw annual "Macworld" conferences where thousands of them sit around licking Jobs's boots for a week. This is nothing new.

 

Have you ever seen the big Nikon vs Canon wars at the forums at DPR?

 

Brands often create loyal users. Jannard has also treated his customers quite well, and he actually spends a lot of time on the internet interacting with average joes and customers. How much time do the CEOs of Sony or Arri or Canon spend chit-chatting about nerdy camera issues on the net with average camera users? Probably zero.

 

There is a reason Red has this following.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's not group all Red owners or shooters into this stereotype you keep talking about.

I was responding to his question of why there would be excitement about replacing film. There are plenty of entirely reasonable people who use the camera, and they generally don't have this sort of "haha, RED is killing film, see ya in the graveyard dinosaurs" attitude. If you've got a better explanation for this, I'm all ears. Preferably an explanation that doesn't involve "Jim Jannard cuddles us and gives us what we want ~lah~"

 

There are plenty of serious individuals who like the Red camera because it offers the ability to create beautiful, gorgeous, wonderful, utterly amazing, captivating, Oscar-winning images that are so great that I just have to include breathless praise in every post about it!
...is what I hear with every one of these posts.

 

And Red is not unique in having a large cult-like following in the tech world. Look at Mac users. They are constantly trying to diss PC users. They throw annual "Macworld" conferences where thousands of them sit around licking Jobs's boots for a week. This is nothing new.

 

Have you ever seen the big Nikon vs Canon wars at the forums at DPR?

I'm very familiar with fanboy cults like these; it's a quite apt comparison. Said fanboy cults are also similar in being unbelievably stupid wastes of time. Why on earth would you dis someone who uses a different computer than you? It's insane! I have never, ever understood that mindset. And similarly, I can't understand what prompts anyone to make an ad like this, aside from an ego-boost, or what they perceive as self-promotion.

 

Brands often create loyal users. Jannard has also treated his customers quite well, and he actually spends a lot of time on the internet interacting with average joes and customers. How much time do the CEOs of Sony or Arri or Canon spend chit-chatting about nerdy camera issues on the net with average camera users? Probably zero.

 

There is a reason Red has this following.

There are plenty of companies that I think are pretty neat and make good products. I don't make commercials for them in my free time just to thumb my nose at people who use competing products. Not only are they perfectly capable of making their own ads, but I also recognize that the existence of their competitors does not constitute some sort of threat to them, or to me, or to my ego. Why would you sit around and trash people who own a Playstation because you've got an XBox? It's absurd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are plenty of serious individuals who like the Red camera because it offers the ability to create beautiful, gorgeous, wonderful, utterly amazing, captivating, Oscar-winning images that are so great that I just have to include breathless praise in every post about it!

 

That might be what you are reading, but it is very, very different from the reality of what I wrote. What I wrote was a simple and straight-forward assessment of the camera specs on Red One that make it popular. A Red One is really nothing more than a DSLR that shoots at higher framerates. And that's a nice advancement in technology. The fact that you are reading in all this flowery stuff is your issue. I did not write any of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That might be what you are reading, but it is very, very different from the reality of what I wrote. What I wrote was a simple and straight-forward assessment of the camera specs on Red One that make it popular. A Red One is really nothing more than a DSLR that shoots at higher framerates. And that's a nice advancement in technology. The fact that you are reading in all this flowery stuff is your issue. I did not write any of that.

The part of the specs where it says "beautiful?" ;) I wrote that stuff because I see that sort of thing a lot with fanboys- the apparent inability to write about the camera without adding all sorts of hyperbole about how great its images are. And to be honest, whether you see yourself this way or not, I'm detecting a bit of fanboy in you, and I wanted to point that out.

 

The point of what I wrote, and of my general attitude here, is that what I really want to see- what's valuable to me- is just calm, dispassionate discussion about the camera. I don't want to hear superlatives every time we bring it up, and I don't want egos involved, and I don't want this sort of gloating. I personally find it really irritating, and more importantly, I find that it makes it more difficult to actually learn what I need to. The camera itself is fine, I'm not really pro- or anti-. It doesn't bother me that other people use it. There are scenarios where I might personally use it, and I'm almost certain I'll be working on some RED footage within the next few years. I just want everybody to chill out and take a step back. It's great to see technology pushed forwards, but I think everyone would be better off to look at things more objectively and dispassionately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The part of the specs where it says "beautiful?" ;) I wrote that stuff because I see that sort of thing a lot with fanboys- the apparent inability to write about the camera without adding all sorts of hyperbole about how great its images are. And to be honest, whether you see yourself this way or not, I'm detecting a bit of fanboy in you, and I wanted to point that out.

 

I think the Red camera, just like 35mm, is capable of producing beautiful images. Much more so than, say, an HVX200. That was my only point. Of course it takes a skilled DP, Director and especially with RAW, a skilled color correction expert to produce those beautiful images. In other words, it's a tool that can be used to create beautiful images. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

 

Hell I have a $300 USD Canon 350D DSLR that I think produces incredibly beautiful images. It never ceases to amaze me the quality of image I see coming out of it.

 

Regarding "fanboys".... actually there are a couple of us regulars at Reduser who go out of our way to be leveled headed and objective. I can often be found defending Canon and Sony products at reduser from some of the kneejerk bashing that a very small number of people engage in there. Most of the regulars there are very cool, helpful, knowledgeable(in their own ways) and easy-to-get-along with guys. The fact is that I have met some of the most awesome people at that forum, people I have learned a lot of from and been out shooting with and who I would never have met otherwise. There are "fanboys" anywhere you go. There are plenty of film diehard types here who can up against the red fanboys any day of the week!

 

My only point being, just be careful not to lump a whole group of people into somewhat derogatory categories. You might find yourself shooting with those guys (or gals) some day! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom, just remember that "film diehards" didn't go around bashing video-users until video users started to think they could make movies for free, or without doing any real work.

 

Do you think Hitchcock and Welles went around bashing video cameras when they first came out?

 

People tend to return hostility with more hostility. I'm not going to comment any further on this thread other than to say it is puerile, and that threads like this make me consider leaving these fora for good. Intelligent technical and practical discussions about the *craft* of filmmaking have seemingly gone by the way side with talk of codecs, new cameras, and new workflows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know why I sat here and read through all this. Headache....

 

 

Don't let the ad get to you. I enjoy film, but the ad doesn't bother me. I know the next frame of film I shoot will give me the results I want, and thats all I really care about. I thought the spot looked awful, I agree that it's not just the camera's fault. nuff said. really. Let fanboys be fanboys, and old fart film guys be dinosaurs, spend more time testing and less time arguing about what the fanboys are doing now. do your own thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Words of wisdom.

 

Tom, you really can't play both sides like you are trying to do. How can you call these thoughts "words of wisdom" when Jamie is speaking out against YOU.

 

If it weren't for the smarmy one-liners at the end of all of your posts like "Be careful what you film guys say about digital because one day you'll be working for us", I wouldn't have a problem with you, but you seem to put incendiary tidbits in every post you have on these fora.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is so irrelevant, who cares....RED, film,hvx200...it's really about the story, the script and what the budget affords.

shoot, shoot, shoot...no matter what format.

I love film, I try to use it when I can but I think it's going to be up to the people that have the money wether it survives as the most important image capture format.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom, you really can't play both sides like you are trying to do. How can you call these thoughts "words of wisdom" when Jamie is speaking out against YOU.

 

Lol, I don't think he was. I am willing to let dinosaurs be dinosaurs and fanboys be fanboys. I am not the one posting long rants against "fanboys" here. I'm trying to get people to tone it down, on both sides. I am a man of peace... I swear. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol, I don't think he was. I am willing to let dinosaurs be dinosaurs and fanboys be fanboys. I am not the one posting long rants against "fanboys" here. I'm trying to get people to tone it down, on both sides. I am a man of peace... I swear. :lol:

 

Nor am I posting rants against fanboys; this is my first usage of the word on this site ever.

 

As to your being a man of peace, I'm laughing too. You seem to be embroiled in all of the controversial posts here that stir up trouble. What makes you such a tough nut to crack is that you like to play yourself off like you are a big fan of IMAX, yet the rest of the time you go around trying to "bury it". Now, look there, I have to put that phrase in quotes from now on to differentiate myself from this puerile exercise.

 

Believe it or not, Tom, there was a time when this site was almost entirely devoted to discussions of how to effectively photograph objects in motion. It's kind of hard to remember now, it was so long ago. Do you remember?

 

I certainly don't believe that only film makes effectively photographing objects in motion possible, and would welcome discussions, regardless of imaging format, on lighiting, filtration, diffusion, lenses, depth of field, and color temperature instead of this incessant stream of garbage that has polarized this site and polluted it with a great deal of hype and triviality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is awful looking and tasteless. I can not believe Red would approve of it at all.

Personally i can not relate to anything about it in any way.

 

Red wont approve. It is the DoP's fault that the images look shite (the colorist has some explaining to do also).

 

Not the camera.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone pointed out the following on reduser where they talk about the same commercial. Check out post 29. He got banned straight away.

 

I think I would have been banned too!

 

It ironic that these 'indie filmmakers' declare the death of film with something so technically weak - lighting, operating, direction - were all inconsistent/odd, creative choices were strange like using steadicam for no necessary reason when a dolly would have done a far better job, jump cutting from that statue etc....

 

Now I wouldn't so freely critique somebody else's work when they're obviously learning like me, but when someone does give some straight, honest and admittedly rough criticism they don't take it but have them banned! How does anyone develop creatively without being pointed out what you've done wrong or right. The guy banned is obviously an experienced individual but his opinion doesn't matter because its not in line with theirs.

 

Its also blatant 'corporate ass-licking' which I will never understand, why people build almost religious loyalties to corporations which are essentially there to take your money in exchange for goods is beyond me. I have a friend who almost gets on his knees when passing outside a Mac shop - which I find very embarrassing. Don't get me wrong I'm a Mac user and I admire the RED on many of its many attributes but use the best tool for the job, don't dilute your own integrity with loyalty to something which can never reciprocate that loyalty.

 

Plus what a waste of time and effort, film-making is hard and expensive - if your going to do it tell a story the world needs to know, or will affect the viewer in some positive way - at the very least entertain them. Presumably they've paid good money for use of all that equipment and location, and the crew are probably all volunteers, giving up their free time - all to make something which is going to bemuse a few corporate geeks and fan boys.

 

Regards,

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone pointed out the following on reduser where they talk about the same commercial. Check out post 29. He got banned straight away.

 

In all fairness, the poster in question was suspected of being an impostor using the name of a fairly famous person. He was publicly offered an opportunity to contact the admins or mods to confirm his identity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
In all fairness, the poster in question was suspected of being an impostor using the name of a fairly famous person. He was publicly offered an opportunity to contact the admins or mods to confirm his identity.

 

Hi Tom,

 

In all fairness the post was spot on, well informed, and I have no doubt of its authenticity. There were conditions attached to that offer........

 

Most of the people with anything interesting or funny to say seem to have banned, which is very sad for REDUSER, there is also a thread complaining about too many people adding noise, just saying great, awsome etc, cant have it both ways IMHO.

 

Best,

 

Stephen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

Forum Sponsors

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CINELEASE

CineLab

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Film Gears

Visual Products

BOKEH RENTALS

Cinematography Books and Gear



×
×
  • Create New...