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Film Stock Numbers?


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Kodak uses numbers to donate what film stock you are ordering. What is the difference between, for example, 5201 and 7201. Would this mean 5201(16mm) and 7201(35mm)? But this still does not make sense to me because you would have to say whether you wanted super16 or super35, and this would not include super8mm stocks either.

 

Evan

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Super35 or Super16 (unless you somehow get saddled with 2R 16mm stock) have nothing to do with the stock, but how the images is recorded onto that stock by the camera.

Also 52 denotes 35mm film for kodak, and 72 is 16. So, 7201 is 16mm 50D, whereas 5201 is the same stock 50D, in 35mm size.

The super this or that has to do with lens centering and the film gate of your camera system.

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Kodak uses numbers to donate what film stock you are ordering. What is the difference between, for example, 5201 and 7201.

the system goes back to the early days of Kodak, and the first two digits not only give the relative size but also the film base and the product line (motion picture, industrial, still camera, etc.) As others have said, 52 is 35mm or larger Motion picture negative , 72 is 16mm or SMALLER MP negative, so your super 8 would have a 72xx number. A stock like 5302 is for lab use and 35mm or larger.

 

Note that a stock that is 35mm wide, but is used for making 16mm prints may have the 16mm stock number. (35mm perfed 32/16mm )

 

The ystem probaly made more sense in the 1930s when they started to use it.

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Super35 or Super16 (unless you somehow get saddled with 2R 16mm stock) have nothing to do with the stock, but how the images is recorded onto that stock by the camera.

Also 52 denotes 35mm film for kodak, and 72 is 16. So, 7201 is 16mm 50D, whereas 5201 is the same stock 50D, in 35mm size.

The super this or that has to do with lens centering and the film gate of your camera system.

I thought there was a difference. 16 has sprocket holes on both sides, whereas s16 only has them on one side, allowing for a larger recordable negative area. Thus I presumed you would need to specify what you want. Am I wrong in this belief?

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Most 16mm stock these days is 1R, or has 1 set of perfs on it. 2R stock from Kodak and Fuji is special order. By default it's all 1R as far as I know. Also, most cameras 16mm or super16mm only have 1 pulldown claw, with a few exceptions, most notably in older cameras or highspeed cameras.

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Kodak have been fairly consistent over the years with their stock numbers; one of the odd ones was 35mm Plus-X negative which for many years was 4231.

In general the first figure indicates the type of base and width. Super 8 is included in the 16mm range and 70mm and 65mm come under 35mm.

 

1=35mm nitrate

2=35mm polyester

3=16mm polyester

5=35mm acetate

7=16mm acetate

 

The second figure indicates negative type emulsion and 3 indicates positive type emulsions.

 

7302 = 16mm Fine grain Release Positive

5234 = 35mm Fine Grain Duplicating Negative

1355 = 35mm Nitrate Duplicating Positive

Brian

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  • 13 years later...
20 minutes ago, Henry Truitt Harshaw said:

This is all really helpful!

Can anyone tell me what the third and fourth digits indicate?

You've resurrected a 13-year-old thread, but anyway, they designate a specific stock. For example, '47 was 100ISO tungsten balanced ECN, sold from about 1974-83. '91 superseded it. '50 was 400ISO VNF reversal.

Current ECN stocks include 19 and 03.

https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/chronology-of-film

Edited by Mark Dunn
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Keep in mind that Kodak reused numbers. There was a 5250 from 1959 to 1962 that was 50 ASA tungsten color negative.

5247 was the first 35mm color negative in 1950, 16 ASA daylight, replaced by 5248, 25 ASA tungsten. Both numbers were reused.

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1 hour ago, Mark Dunn said:

You've resurrected a 13-year-old thread, but anyway, they designate a specific stock. For example, '47 was 100ISO tungsten balanced ECN, sold from about 1974-83. '91 superseded it. '50 was 400ISO VNF reversal.

Current ECN stocks include 19 and 03.

https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/chronology-of-film

Aaaaaahhhh. Ok. Thank you!

And hey, it worked, didn't it?? 

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16 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

Keep in mind that Kodak reused numbers. There was a 5250 from 1959 to 1962 that was 50 ASA tungsten color negative.

5247 was the first 35mm color negative in 1950, 16 ASA daylight, replaced by 5248, 25 ASA tungsten. Both numbers were reused.

Ah. I see they didn't use digit 2 to distinguish between negative and reversal- only between negative- and positive-working stocks (that's a stills photography term- don't know if it's MP usage).

OT, we used miles and miles of VNF at the weapons range. I wondered what happened when it was discontinued- this was before digital high-speed imaging was widespread- but shortly afterwards I found out from a photographer at another range that they'd just gone back to b/w. Colour was never that relevant to results, I think clients just expected it.

Edited by Mark Dunn
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MY understanding (and it may be wrong) is that after TV news went electronic, VNF was primarily used for automotive crash tests, and when the rules changed to require digital capture that market dried up.  certainly I bought some "surplus"  VNF back decade ago and it was standard pitch on thin Estar base, which would imply it was intended for High speed Cameras.

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9 hours ago, Charles MacDonald said:

Estar base, which would imply it was intended for High speed Cameras.

We didn't use Estar for high-speed- it doesn't tear, so a jam would have wrecked the camera. It was acetate all the way. Our main cleaning device was a vacuum cleaner for chips from the end of the roll when it ran out.

At a guess, yours was Estar to get a longer load for news.

Edited by Mark Dunn
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Kodak began numbering films in 1928 due to the increased complexity of film stocks that they were manufacturing (Cine, Consumer, Medical, Graphics, Industrial, etc.).  It made managing the products through the operations and for sales outlets much easier.  Initially, as was posted earlier, the first two digits meant what was posted already - to deliniate the type of base and then the type of film stock (negative / print), and the numbering scheme of the last two numbers was done (in 1928) based on an attempt to get the oldest emulsions being made with the lowest numbers and so on.  As time went by and numbers were used up, the ability to add on changed and my predescessors opted to try to group the last two digit numbers for specific stocks/stock types.

When in 1988, Keykode edgeprinting was developed, a new level of care had to be established so as to not duplicate the numbers being used on OCN and Intermediate products because those numbers are added into the Keykode bar code and could conceivable lead to errors in computer decision lists and stock pulls for editing (now done almost all in a computer), especially if a movie is using flashback film from other shows / movies.  So, we have been very diligent in maintaining a listing of each and every code printed with Keykode and know which numbers have not been used.  When a new code comes along, as in the case of the Ektachrome 100 in 2017, the team had to make a decision as to what code to use and we could not use the old x285 as that was a different emulsion, and we couldn't use the x291 which was the other E100 in 2013.  We opted to move to x294, which had been used for ECN 400 speed in the 1980's-1990 so it was Keykoded, but because E100 is reversal, the KK barcodes will not read when processed as a reversal and when cross-processed, the film is so different in look that the team at Kodak felt that there was no risk of mix-up & we didn't use one of the handful of not used numbers in case they are needed in the future.   A code like 5279 or 7279, for example, is not planned to ever be used for another ECN because it could lead to confusion somewhere down the line.

In terms of VNF films, the typical VNF's were made on acetate base support and products for specific special applications were made on polyester - no different than what Kodak did for years for special ECN stocks on Estar to be used in extreme applications...where longer rolls or tempertures may render to the film too brittle (Mt. Everest / Antartica for example).  NFL films did use VNF films for quite a while but eventually switched over to 16mm ECN films due to their extended latitude and grain position for the high speed films and the improvements in 2K and HD telecine scanning - all allowing improved image capture.  When digital camera sensor technology improved, they moved to those despite the higher contrast & lack of shadow detail, but for their use was deemed fine enough.  Other uses of VNF films near their end were those mentioned (rocket and engine testing, high speed analysis of things in motion and NATO ballistic testing of various weapons. VNF was also used for crash testing because one could not adjust a film image and it took a while for the legalities of digital for motion and still film to allow digital which now carry some type of tamper-proof stamp to ensure legitimacy should that be needed in a  lawsuit / investigation.  I'm sure there were other special applications as well.

Fred Knauf,  Eastman Kodak Co.  Quality Manager

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