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They can do some good work in the USA, for the 13 Americans left that can afford to pay for it :lol:

 

 

R,

 

Not (too) dismissive and condescending of you :huh:

 

Come on R-...

 

Over 1/3 of those without health insurance (in the USA) simply won't sign up and cut a check.. they can afford it.. but figure that money is better spent elsewhere.. we all make choices!

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Not (too) dismissive and condescending of you :huh:

 

Come on R-...

 

Over 1/3 of those without health insurance (in the USA) simply won't sign up and cut a check.. they can afford it.. but figure that money is better spent elsewhere.. we all make choices!

 

David,

 

Forget about those that don't have any coverage for a moment, let's talk about the Americans that have so called "good coverage."

 

1) Hundreds of thousands of Americans with health insurance end up getting their claims denied by the insurance companies because the insurance companies simply label the needed surgery as "experimental" and refuse to pay. Then the insurance company says to these people, don't like it? Then sue us. BTW, we have billions of dollars and thousands of lawyers on staff so you'll be dead before we even get into court.

 

2) Americans with health coverage must still make co-payments even after the insurance company has paid their portion, usually 80% from my personal experience with Blue Cross. Ok well that's fine on a $1000.00 bill, you get stuck with paying $200.00. But, EVERY single American I know has had to pay approx $10, 000.00 as a co-pay for the birth of each child. You have to make co-pays in addition to paying the monthly premiums, that really STINKS! What a crappy system!

 

3) The insurance companies are for profit publicilly traded companies, they make more money by denying claims than when they accept them. What the *bleep*!!

 

Look David I lived in the USA for six years and I had Blue Cross via my employer. Ok so I had to see a doctor one day, and they handed me a list of pre-approved doctors that I could see. So I call one up and make an appointment, this is my first time as a Canadian seeing a US doctor. Oh my gosh was I in for the shock of my life! The paper work for the insurance forms was ridiculous!! Page after page after page. Then they wanted me to make the co-pay on the spot directly to the doctors office, then I was hit with page after page of paper work via the mail from Blue Cross. I could not frigging believe it, and that was just a short visit!!

 

Now here in Canada a doctors visit goes like this David, I show my provincial health card. DONE!! That's it, nothing more. I never see a bill, I never hand over any money at the doctors office, I never see any bills or paper work in the mail.

 

Now that's what I call a great health care system! I visit the US very often and people there are shocked when I tell them this, it's so much easier and faster than the USA there is no comparison, sorry.

 

I've had two children born under the Canadian health care system, never saw a bill, no co-pays, and my wife received world class medical care regardless of what the idiots at the AMA have to say.

 

R,

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David,

 

Forget about those that don't have any coverage for a moment, let's talk about the Americans that have so called "good coverage."

 

1) Hundreds of thousands of Americans with health insurance end up getting their claims denied by the insurance companies because the insurance companies simply label the needed surgery as "experimental" and refuse to pay. Then the insurance company says to these people, don't like it? Then sue us. BTW, we have billions of dollars and thousands of lawyers on staff so you'll be dead before we even get into court.

 

2) Americans with health coverage must still make co-payments even after the insurance company has paid their portion, usually 80% from my personal experience with Blue Cross. Ok well that's fine on a $1000.00 bill, you get stuck with paying $200.00. But, EVERY single American I know has had to pay approx $10, 000.00 as a co-pay for the birth of each child. You have to make co-pays in addition to paying the monthly premiums, that really STINKS! What a crappy system!

 

3) The insurance companies are for profit publicilly traded companies, they make more money by denying claims than when they accept them. What the *bleep*!!

 

Look David I lived in the USA for six years and I had Blue Cross via my employer. Ok so I had to see a doctor one day, and they handed me a list of pre-approved doctors that I could see. So I call one up and make an appointment, this is my first time as a Canadian seeing a US doctor. Oh my gosh was I in for the shock of my life! The paper work for the insurance forms was ridiculous!! Page after page after page. Then they wanted me to make the co-pay on the spot directly to the doctors office, then I was hit with page after page of paper work via the mail from Blue Cross. I could not frigging believe it, and that was just a short visit!!

 

Now here in Canada a doctors visit goes like this David, I show my provincial health card. DONE!! That's it, nothing more. I never see a bill, I never hand over any money at the doctors office, I never see any bills or paper work in the mail.

 

Now that's what I call a great health care system! I visit the US very often and people there are shocked when I tell them this, it's so much easier and faster than the USA there is no comparison, sorry.

 

I've had two children born under the Canadian health care system, never saw a bill, no co-pays, and my wife received world class medical care regardless of what the idiots at the AMA have to say.

 

R,

 

This is all because Republicans/Conservatives in the US have adopted an ideology that espouses that everything be privatized with the (erroneous) suggestion that everything will be better that way (instead of the "EVIL" of Socialism).

 

For clear reasons, Republicans have brainwashed billions of people into believing that "Socialism" is somehow inherently evil and that ANY signs of it should be destroyed immediately. Of course PURE Socialism probably wouldn't work but at the same time PURE unrestrained Capitalism has been PROVEN to be beneficial ONLY TO THE RICH.

 

The Milton Friedman ideology continues to wreak havoc on the planet and now the US is feeling what so many others have too... only we have some kind of protection against CIA-backed/US-funded tyrannical dictators whose sole function is to replace functioning economies with full privatization (for the benefit of the few).

 

Just like evil Conservatives who have destroyed other nations and economies the world-round, simple band-aids on this problem will never fix the US or the world. For better or worse, the sane intelligent people of the world will have to stoop to their level and use "shocking" methods to completely overhaul a broken system.

 

Those who disagree are already rich and don't want to lose their status ... or they are choosing willful ignorance, hiding behind the flag... not out of patriotism, but out of arrogance that the US can do no wrong. It's sad what the Republicans have done to our nation... both to our own state of affairs and in how the US is viewed around the world. Anyone who can't see the truth is delusional or is lying about it.

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Well Brian buddy, I think gov't should run the health care system, same as they do the schools, roads, fire, police, military, etc.

 

But I'm probably not as anti capitalism as you are :lol:

 

R,

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Forget about those that don't have any coverage for a moment,
why?.. they are included in the numbers trumpeted by those who want a socialist healthcare system.

 

R-.. I am in NO WAY defending our present healthcare system! I agree with Karl. However, if our healthcare is to become like our federally run school system, we are in deep deep kimshi!... especially if you live in Detroit! btw.. you see the bill for your doctor visits not when you go.. but every time you make a dollar. So, you make a dollar... how much do you keep? Say you make $100k in Canada.. how much do you keep? :huh:

 

I just don't understand this sudden turn towards a BIGGER Government as the cure for our woes. Our Government is WAY out of line doing things they have NO Constitutional authority to do... there, I just made it onto one of the Radical Conservative Watch Lists :unsure: ...... :P

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So, you make a dollar... how much do you keep? Say you make $100k in Canada.. how much do you keep? :huh:

 

Impossible to say really, if I am self employed in Canada and make that 100K I am better off here than in the USA because I don't have to pay self employment tax like you do in the USA. And self employment tax in the US is brutal!

 

Plus how many children do I have to generate deductions and how much do I have in charitable tax reducing deductions?

 

Yes it's safe to say that a salaried employee making 100K a year in the USA will take home more than a Canadian making 100K. That's true. It would not be a huge difference though.

 

My point is that if I live in the USA and I have to pay health premiums and co-pays, then all of my tax savings of living in the USA vs Canada just went out the window. Plus I have to deal with all of the BS I mentioned above. If I live in the USA and I don't have the money I earned because it was taken by a health insurance company or the gov't, fact is, I don't have it to spend.

 

We have more of a "pay as you go" philosophy in Canada. If a service is provided by the gov't, then we expect to pay for it. In the US the philosophy is to run massive deficits financed by the Chinese gov't, Obama AND Bush both take this approach.

 

The US prints the world's money so each dollar the federal reserve spits out which is then bought by a foreign gov't becomes a loan the US gov't never has to pay back.

 

The question is, what happens if the USD collapses because there are too many US notes in circulation? The only option left then is to raise interest rates to defend the currency. So these wonderful low interest rates we now all enjoy reverse and our recession becomes some thing a whole lot worse than it is now.

 

Fact is the US should be cutting spending and raising taxes, not increasing spending and lowering taxes.

 

R,

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I'd say we need to cut spending.. cut the pork.. cut the fat.. drastically review all entitlement programs.. trim the Government bureaucracies in half and have them demonstrate from our Constitution where the Constitution gives them the authority to do anything they intend to vote on Enumerated Powers Act... seal the borders allowing people to come in 'legally'... and lower taxes especially for small businesses (the workhorses of our economy) and move to a Fair Tax System... term limits... transfer powers back to the States.. yes, we could go on and on... it ain't perfect.

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seal the borders allowing people to come in 'legally'

 

Hmmm, how will you do that? The Southern border leaks like a sive and the Northern border is

5, 000 kms long!

 

... and lower taxes especially for small businesses (the workhorses of our economy)

 

I will agree with you 100% here. I have told people for years that the way to revive an economy isn't stimulus money handed over to the public in the form of "rebate cheques". What you do is tell employers that they can deduct 1.5 times the salary of any person they hire currently collecting unemployment benefits. So if you hire some one at 35K/year, the company can take a deduction of 52.5K a year on their expenses. Each of these new hires will be under this plan for five years.

 

Now you do that and you'll see unemployment start to drop like a stone, guaranteed!!

 

Best of all the gov't doesn't have to actually write any cheques to make this happen.

 

So people ask me, Richard if this is such a good idea why hasn't any gov't implemented a plan like this? The answer is easy, because the vast majority of the public are not business owners and don't really understand how business accounting works.

 

The perception of the voters would be that a few "rich" business owners are getting a benefit while the typical guy on main street isn't. This of course isn't true, but how would you fight that perception?

 

It's easier to send people cheques that as we have seen do nothing to help the economy because it's not in any way a long term investment in the economy. It's just a politically popular blip on the radar.

 

R,

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France has pioneered the face transplant operation, a South African performed the world's first heart transplant operation, two Canadians discovered insulin, the list goes on.....

 

R,

 

I'm not arguing about medical innovation, just stating the fact that we import a great deal of our doctors from elsewhere here in the States. Must be a reason for so many of them coming here. Hell my Aunt is an import Doctor that my Uncle brought back with him from Poland following medical school.

 

Maybe France pioneered face transplants, but the Cleveland Clinic in my former hometown is where everyone goes to get them done. . .

 

 

Let's be straight, I'm not knocking Canada's healthcare. It's very good as well, but America definitely has the biggest medical business on the planet Earth.

 

 

What's the line from the Dave Chapelle show? "As President, I have the key to a solution for America's healtcare crisis: Fake Canadian IDs for every U.S. Citizen!"

 

Lol.

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5, 000 kms long!

 

You really ought post units here in thousands of Roman paces as well as thousands of meters :-p

 

3,000 (or so) miles is a much prettier number.

 

Come on Richard! CKSY could handly quoting temperatures in Fahrenheit along with Celsius. If they can handle both systems, ANYONE can!

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It's very good as well, but America definitely has the biggest medical business on the planet Earth.

 

Yes 100% agreed. BUSINESS!!

 

What's the line from the Dave Chapelle show? "As President, I have the key to a solution for America's healtcare crisis: Fake Canadian IDs for every U.S. Citizen!"

 

Lol.

 

Well you don't know how close to reality that very funny comment from Mr. Chapelle is!

 

Ontario went to a system of photo IDs on all health cards several years ago because too many people in Ontario where letting their un-insured friends from the USA use their health cards!!

 

I actually have one of the last remaining "old" cards that has no picture and never expires. Every time I see a doctor they tell me, "what ever you do, don't lose that card." Many an American has been quite fascinated at the sight my "OHIP" card. It's like when they see it they hear a heavenly choir as light radiates from behind the card :lol:

 

R,

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It's easier to send people cheques that as we have seen do nothing to help the economy because it's not in any way a long term investment in the economy. It's just a politically popular blip on the radar.

 

R,

 

 

Right! I find it ironically funny (but somehow not) that Republicans, who claim to be the anti-government/less government party, are the party that mailed checks to every tax payer in the US in 2008. And in Alaska, the Republican Governor hands out oil revenue sharing checks to every citizen. Meanwhile, Democrats favor lowering taxes on most workers (citizens in the USA).

 

But somehow, the Republican marketing machine still manages to use scare tactics to make the average undereducated saps out there believe that the Democrats are evil-Socialists. :blink:

 

The lack of genuine education out there is astoundingly disturbing.

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Well Brian buddy, I think gov't should run the health care system, same as they do the schools, roads, fire, police, military, etc.

 

But I'm probably not as anti capitalism as you are :lol:

 

R,

 

I'm not "anti-Capitalism" at all or "Liberal" or a "Democrat." I'm for education, reality, common sense, and fairness. The fact is that both extremes of Socialism and Free Market Capitalism look great on paper, but in practice, they will never work due to human fear and greed.

 

The Milton Friedman model of Free Market Capitalism has taken on many names in the past thirty or so years (Reaganomics, Trickle Down, etc) but it is still the same stale concept that has been PROVEN to be devastating to numerous nations that had been functioning perfectly well before these greedy SOBs decided to try to remake the world in their image.

 

It takes balance... some Socialist policies and some Capitalist policies to make a civilized society function. When too few people hoard most of the worlds wealth, that kind of system cannot sustain itself forever. Those who fight for Capitalism are those who are profiting from it.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with either system. Socialism is NOT evil. Capitalism isn't either. It's the people who find ways to unfairly profit from the ideologies who are the problem.

 

The issue is how much of society should be privatized and how much socialized. I don't hear ANYONE suggesting that everything should be Socialized. NOBODY. BUT, I constantly hear THE RICH and UNINFORMED whine about ANY socialization and suggest that EVERYTHING should be privatized. They say those things because A) they are already reaping great wealth from milking the system or B) they are ignorant to the realities of how damaging full privatization IS and has been around the world.

 

Balance. We in the middle can't allow those at the top to suck our system dry unless we (90% of us on the planet) want to be poor and worse. As The Holy Grail so comically and correctly said, "There you go, bringing class into it again." ... "That's what it's all about..." The rich want to keep what they have and they want more no matter who it hurts... and they'll lie and steal and deceive to keep the status quo. That's been the Republican way since at least Reagan. Finally, we have a chance to try to reset the system... to tilt it at least a little back into balance. But the evil upperclass will fight and whine and scream the entire way and use "guns" and "religion" to whip the ignorant masses into a frenzy as their pawns.

 

It's a whacked world we live in. I often wonder if alien civilizations go through the same nonsense. :unsure:

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Brian, forgive me, but you sound fit the Democrat mold in a pretty classical fashion.

 

To put it another way: How many Republicans have you voted for as President?

 

I can say, proudly, that Ivote for candidates from both parties, even independent parties.

 

Different parties have different strengths in different circumstances.

 

Let's cut right to the chase though: Do you really want to pay 30-40% tax on every purchase to publicallly fund healthcare? I think that is an undue burden on the taxpayer. With so many examples of how the government wastes money left and right (the U.S. military spends something like 10x as much as all the countries in teh world that could coneivably combat us in a war), do you *really* want to bring bureaucracy to yet another system? I think healtchare needs to be regulated, but it should not be socialized, and it should not be "free".

 

Things cost enough in the United States without having to pay 30% sales tax on top of everything. 8-5/8% is high enough, thank you very much. Likewise, when we poor folk are paying 1/6 of our income in tax, the middle class are paying 1/3, and the wealthy are paying 50-60% now, what will it be up to with free healtcare? A third,50-60%, and 80% respectively?

 

Sorry, but I don't accept this feeling of entitlement. One should understand that some jobs have great benefits and others don't. So, if you want good benefits, why not try to get a government job with the excellent healthcare and jobs benefits that they offer. . .

 

Or work in the medical field. They get free college, and free healthcare.

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Let's cut right to the chase though: Do you really want to pay 30-40% tax on every purchase to publicallly fund healthcare?

 

Karl,

 

Where on earth do you pull 30-40% from??????????????

 

No country on earth has a sales tax any where near that level to fund their national health care. Canada uses a national sales tax, and it's 5%.

 

I'm curious to know how you arrive at 30-40%?

 

If the USA did impose a national sales tax of 5% it would add up to a staggering amount and this small bit of pain would go along way to financing many of the social services that are either lacking or non-existent in the US.

 

BTW Karl, how do you get your health care paid for? Do you have to pay a monthly premium? Are you self employed? Do you have health insurance?

 

R,

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Do you really want to pay 30-40% tax on every purchase to publicallly fund healthcare?

Where are you getting that #? I've never even heard anyone propose this idea. Have I missed something?

Likewise, when we poor folk are paying 1/6 of our income in tax, the middle class are paying 1/3, and the wealthy are paying 50-60% now, what will it be up to with free healtcare? A third,50-60%, and 80% respectively?

And where are you getting THOSE #'s? The highest federal rate anyone is currently paying is 35%. I guess I could be mistaken about the exact #, but it's certainly not 50%-60%, even if you add state tax.

 

I think we can all agree that the 1950's were/are considered to be a very good time in our country, arguably the best. People were prospering, the country was prospering, and there was a general happiness throughout the nation. So, food for thought....in the 50's the max marginal tax rate was 92% on married couples. This rate applied to any married couple making a combined $400,000.00 or more. Now, I'm certainly not saying that we need to have a 92% tax rate, but one could certainly argue that taxes should be higher based on our past experiences regarding taxes/happiness/prosperity.

Here is a chart that lists max tax rates from 1917-2003. I find it interesting that taxes were very low leading up to and during 1929 and more than doubled a couple years later in order to help the country recover from the Depression. A quick look at the chart and you can see the similarities to the present.

 

I'm not an economist, but this stuff isn't exactly rocket science. Yeah, it sucks to pay taxes, but taxes are an investment in our country and our people. We can certainly argue quite a bit with the politicians about how, why, and where they spend that money, but taxes in general aren't a bad thing. They pay for the things that we can't. What's so bad about that? Some people don't want to pay taxes at all, but they sure want the fire department to show up when their house is on fire....they just don't want to pay for it.

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Are these figures taking into account State, Local, and Social Security Taxes as well?

 

The way I understand it, the lowest tier (me) pays over a sixth (almost 20%) plus of course sales tax. Middle class is over 25% plus sales tax, and the wealthy are paying over a third plus sales tax.

 

I've always heard that the wealthiest of the wealthy are paying over 50%. Of course, perhaps you are forgetting capital gains and other taxes that affect business entities in addition to what they are "officially" paying.

 

You're paying taxes on interest, double taxes on stocks, almost 50¢ a gallon on gas, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

Maybe I just incorrectly assumed that Canada's tax structure mirrors that of the E.U.

 

Aren't there two sales taxes, that add up to nearly 15% on everything?

 

 

I could fly to Detroit for $400 or so. To take the same trip a hop, skip and a jump away in Toronto costs over $1,000.

 

 

Gas in Canada, taking the current exchange rate of about 80¢U.S./Canadian Dollar, and 3.78L/U.S. gal. we're paying the equivalent of 63¢/L Canadian. I understand prices are in the high 90s up there.

 

So clearly the average Canadian is paying signifcantly more for goods and services, and further has to pay far more personal income tax than in the U.S.

 

I agree that wealthy should be taxed more, but Jesus, not 90% as that chart indicates was done in the past.

 

 

In Europe, unemployment as I understand it, pays nearly the same wage as when someone was employed and lasts six months. Sounds like an aweful tempting chance to take a six month paid vacation to me.

 

Let's get this straight: I'm not advocating survival of the fittest or saying that the government shouldn't step in to protect the poor, homeless, disabled, and sick.

 

But I think we can all agree that for every government program out there, there is huge potential for abuse. Look at how illegal immigrants were capitalizing on our lax welfare laws here in the '90s. Even with reform, there are families of people who have never worked a day in their lives. There are second- and third generation families of welfare dependents here, even to this day.

 

Government's stepping in to try to help the poor get better mortgage deals were/are directly responsible for the continuing housing foreclosure crisis in the U.S. right now.

 

And don't forget, it took WWII, not Democratic reform (though the latter certainly did help) to pull the U.S. out of the Great Depression that gripped the nation in the '30s.

 

I think the United States need to stop short of fully embracing socialism, and the high tax rates that result. We can all agree, no, that taxes in the U.S. are far lower than in Canada, and far far far lower than in Europe, right?

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We can all agree, no, that taxes in the U.S. are far lower than in Canada,

 

No actually we can't agree on that. As I said earlier there is no self employment tax in Canada so as a self employed person I am farther ahead than if I lived in the USA. Plus I have no health care premiums to pay here and my family of four is 100% insured.

 

Yes there are provincial and federal sales taxes here, in Ontario 8% and 5% respectively, and yes a litre of gasoline is more here than in the USA. (Why we export 2 million barrels of oil a day to the USA so it can be refined into cheap gasoline while we pay more for gas here is beyond me :blink: )

 

What you are missing Karl is this, I have friends in the USA that must pay $1300.00 mos for their family health care plan, so any tax savings they gain by living in the USA and completely wiped out by their health care premiums. And again Karl, in 41 years I have never heard of a single Canadian filing for bankruptcy as a result of health care bills. This happens daily in the USA to thousands of Americans including those that have this great "private" insurance.

 

I still want to know what your health care situation is? You say you are a film loader on your profile, so how do you get health insurance? Are you paying a monthly fee? Do you have children that need insuring or just your self.

 

You're not still on mom and dad's health insurance are you?

 

So do you have health insurance and how is it paid for Karl?

 

R,

 

PS: Enjoy your low US taxes as long as you can because it won't last long:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/15/wal...debt/index.html

 

It's quite possible that we could see a day when Canada has lower taxes than the USA and still provides universal health care as a result of Canada's over all much more disciplined approach to gov't spending.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Remember when the Cinematography Forums were about cinematography and not just another soapbox for people to run off at the mouth about absolute tripe? Yeah, me neither.

 

 

Ideally, we all just want to be who we want to be in this one life we have and do what we want to do. For better or worse, our "hobby" is also our chosen method of making a living, or at least attempting to. Learning the "art" of filmmaking is pointless is a person isn't able to practice it in reality. While economics may seem far afield from Cinematography, it has everything to do with the BUSINESS that allows us to do this thing we want to do.

 

From what we get paid daily/hourly to where financiers/Producers choose to actually have the work done, the economy is what makes it possible to make a movie at all. And being aware of the issues that make it all happen can help everyone create AND MAINTAIN a viable career instead of becoming one of those countless others who have either given up or just couldn't maintain the life and career.

 

 

And for the most part, these aren't "soapbox" diatribes. There are macro-economic issues that some of us are attempting to impart. There will always be naysayers who choose to not recognize and understand reality, but it is still worth the time to share knowledge with others in the hope that perhaps they can benefit and maybe the situation can be changed for the better.

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if you say so.....

 

Well, not really. What's the last project you worked on where there was no financing at all? Where you didn't get paid a living wage? Not counting charity work, I imagine most people who actively work in the film/TV industry need a paycheck of some kind. That means that the work that is done has to receive financing from somewhere. And those who receive the financing determine how and where to spend that money.

 

I know guys right now who are bouncing around the country (and a couple of them actually bounce around the planet) chasing the work... chasing the latest tax incentives....

 

This isn't "tripe" in the least. Knowing where the work is being done and why can keep a career going. Choosing to remain ignorant of those issues could mean some very lean times. There are no guarantees, of course, but the more you know, the better chance you'll have of building and maintaining a viable career. Or... the other option is to just ignore it all and hope you get lucky. :unsure:

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