Video Editing Computer

[jeff striker]

Hey guys. Next month i'll be purchasing a PC strictly for my video editing. I'll be running Premier Pro on it, btw. I have been looking at a custom Alienware setup but its awfully expensive ($3,000 for just the computer)

 

one of the bigger expensives in that package is a Matrox Video Editing software bundle that comes with adobe premier pro, encore, and audition. check it out here<br><br>

 

im just starting to learn about all this equipment so im not sure if thats too much or not enough. any recommendations for good sites to buy custom computers, or do i even need something custom?

 

i would like to spend no more than $2500 for the computer and premier setup. is this realistic? any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Yeah, that's realistic, and I don't think you need to spend three grand on hardware alone unless you're very, very serious. I recently built a machine for a friend to play games on, which I'd happily use to cut - I think it was an AMD Athlon XP 2800+, the ubiquitous Asus A7N8X motherboard and half a gig of generic RAM. Obviously you'll want to load up on hard drive space - the N8X motherboard has RAID controllers on it, so you might even be interested in putting in an array. I don't know what component prices are like in the US or whether you'd prefer to pay someone to build it for you, but my feeling is you could do most of it for under a grand. Spend either $1000 or $1500 on the Adobe digital video collection and reserve any remaining funds for a decent firewire DAC and monitor.

 

Phil

[jeff striker]

thanks phil. anyone else have anything to contribute?

[Alvin Pingol]

thanks phil. anyone else have anything to contribute?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mr. Rhodes basically summed it up. Nowadays, even the most basic of computers will not have trouble editing DV. If you're editing footage with higher data rates for whatever reason (uncompressed, HD, whatever), then you'll be needing some intense HDD management (like RAID, as Phil mentions), and a faster processor would help, as well.

 

But don't go spending $3000 on a computer; it's really not worth it. What angers me most, however, is when people buy the insanely expensive Alienwares because they "look cool," and don't do much more than Internet, Word Processing, Instant Messenger, Word Processing, Internet, Internet, Instant Messenger, Word Processing, Internet... ;)

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Yes I agree with Alvin, Alienware design their computers to look good. And thats where a lot of the money goes. And from looking at many of these novelty cases, they don't even seem that sturdy or solid. My computer case is pretty much the most boring one out there, but it's solid like a brick and apparently fits my system perfectly.

 

And $3000 should get you one of the top PC's out on the market (within reason)

 

What type of video are yoiu editing exactly? (i.e. MiniDV, HD e.t.c.)

[jeff striker]

Yes I agree with Alvin, Alienware design their computers to look good. And thats where a lot of the money goes. And from looking at many of these novelty cases, they don't even seem that sturdy or solid. My computer case is pretty much the most boring one out there, but it's solid like a brick and apparently fits my system perfectly.

 

And $3000 should get you one of the top PC's out on the market (within reason)

 

What type of video are yoiu editing exactly? (i.e. MiniDV, HD e.t.c.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i'll be working with miniDV. i've realized that the alienware package is very overpriced, and for the time being i've settled on a system by HP, plus i'm going to add a Matrox software/hardware bundle. but i've got until january to figure it out so hopefully by then i'll have found the right setup

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Ok MiniDV. A fairly simple setup should do the job fine.

 

-------------------------------------------

1024 RAM (Minimum, and makes sure it's fast)

 

2X 120 GB Hard Drives (Fast hard drives, possibly SATA if you can afford it)

 

No less than 2.66 GHz P4 Processing power (Splash out on the processor)

-------------------------------------------

 

If you choose to buy an Athlon XP processor as opposed to a Pentium 4, then that?s your choice. But I'll warn you now that EVERY Athlon I have seen has burnt out when put under heavy work load. Although the Athlons do work out faster than the Pentiums, just don't run as long if put under heavy work load. I have an old Pentium 133Mhz, I bought it about 10 years ago now and it still works fine to this very day.

 

But, apparently there are people on this board that have been using Athlon XP's for a while now, putting them under workload e.t.c. and they haven't had any problems.

Edited December 8, 2004 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

The machine I mainly cut on only has half a gig of RAM in it, and it's fine so long as I don't try to have any more than two of Premiere, Photoshop and Sound Forge open at once. Not that I'd reccommend skimping on memory. I'd certainly avoid Intel processors - the 30% price markup really doesn't get you anywhere.

 

Exactly how many AMD processors have you seen die, Daniel? As in you were in the room when they failed. You know as well as I do that people like to overclock things then bitch like crazy when they fail - and the last thing you'll hear about is that little Johnny was running it thirty percent faster than it was supposed to go.

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Exactly how many AMD processors have you seen die, Daniel? As in you were in the room when they failed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, about 4 in total. And it was backed up by people at the computer fairs I go to.

 

I wouldn't say they fail "just like that", but they get worse and worse over time. Signs are that you sometimes get bluecreen errors and general unstableness in the system. My last computer started off becoming unstable and then COMPLETELY died after time. Every time I booted it up, I got a bluescreen error. (Not the old, infamous bluescreen, the new one in XP)

 

Ever bought/built a brand new PC, and found that after time it just seems to become really unstable? I've found those sort of problems to be with either the CPU, or the software. (It's mainly the software, people download tons of crap and then wonder why it's all clogged up and takes about 10 minutes to boot up)

 

I built my new PC with a Pentium 4 and I've put it through hell, and it still works perfectly. I mean the software side of it gets a bit messed up after time but it's nothing a format won't fix, so any errors are software related.

 

Type this into google "amd's burn out". Theres quite a few topics about it.

 

You know as well as I do that people like to overclock things then bitch like crazy when they fail - and the last thing you'll hear about is that little Johnny was running it thirty percent faster than it was supposed to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeh, well none of these systems were over clocked. I don't get what it is with people overclocking their systems. Manufacturers spend MILLIONS designing a chip, and then some kid in their garage think they can improve it. I mean, if there wasn't any risks making it go faster, I'm pretty sure the chip designer would have done it.

 

Just one of those things. Bit like hackers in a way. They think that these big companies like Microsoft are compete idiots and don't know about the ways in which people hack computers. "Uhh.. newsflash mate. Microsoft have hackers working FOR them which are MUCH smarter and experienced than you. Except they use their knowledge to protect systems."

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Yeah, and there's 180,000 matches for "pluperfectly rubber-feathered squirrel pumpkin" as well, so I guess they're a danger to your computer...

 

Phil

[Jon Allen]

You guys are too much.

On the side of Phil, yes, you can cut on 512, but then, you'd better be sure you're not running anything else besides your edit software!

On Dan's side, Athlons are notorius for running hot. If you don't have a big heatsink and a couple fans, you'd better learn how to replace CPUs soon.

I overclock on a regular basis. (little jonny in his basement thinks he can make his computer better)

But I've never been in a room when a chip failed, and honestly, none of my machines have ever taken this dive. I've had plenty of harddrives and power supplies go bad, but never cooked a cpu.

As I understand people that have destroyed their processor, it is a matter of overclocking and poorly thought out cooling systems. Usually when a chip fails it's because something else does first- heatsink/paste or fan- the motherboard is a little latent when it monitors your cpu temperature, so it's a matter of the cpu heating up too fast before the motherboard recognizes it and shuts it down.

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

My XP3000 @ 2.17Ghz and 1GB of RAM runs Premiere Pro, Photoshop, Nuendo, EMU Patchmix and MS Word all at the same time with no problem. Of course I don't actually have them all actively doing something at the same time. It's pretty amazing that you can do all of that, though. The sure way to crash it is to hit 'Print' in Word. I avoid printing stuff untill after a session and close everything down.

 

I'm just about finished with converting my spare room into a recording studio/edit suite. It's completely sound proofed, has isolated ground power circuits and custom built (by me) desk with 19" rackmounts. Pretty cool, it's taken me a year to get it this far.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I'm just about finished with converting my spare room into a recording studio/edit suite.  It's completely sound proofed, has isolated ground power circuits and custom built (by me) desk with 19" rackmounts.  Pretty cool, it's taken me a year to get it this far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds pretty cool actually. You recording music or just film related sound?

[Jon Allen]

Actually, if you want real power- you can get a very decent powermac for 3grand.

A quick check shows that for $3020. You can get:

Dual G5 1.8 GHz CPUs

2GB DDR400 RAM

2x250GB HDs

Nvidia FX5200 Ultra

No Modem, But built-in gigabit ethernet

Superdrive; dvd-r burner

(crappy) apple mouse & keyboard

MacOS X

 

Plus there's free shipping.

 

Just something to consider if you're not totally sold on building your own PC.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Plus there's free shipping.

Well, I should hope so!

 

It's not worth the risk attempting to build your own computer if your not sure what your doing. You could pay a bit extra and have someone very experienced build it, and then you wouldn't have to worry about components being damaged. (Well, if they do ever get damaged then at least it's not down to you)

 

One thing I've found with Macs is that the hardware is REDICULOSELY overpriced. I was just customising a Mac on their web site.

 

2 Gig of RAM. = £600

 

I bought my PC for 650, and that has 1 Gig DDR! (And yes, it's 3200)

 

And a gigbit ethernet card cost £75?!

 

Free delivery? Free delivery!! I'd want it built immediately and personally taken to my house for the kind of money I'd spend!

Edited December 10, 2004 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Macs are pricey, there's no doubt. I do feel that you get at least 80% of what you pay for, though, and there's nothing stopping you using most standard components, including hard disk space, memory, and many types of expansion board which can be purchased from the usual sources - so long as you don't expect very competent after-sales support.

 

Phil

[Guest Marko Hila]

Well, keep it simple?focus on your application!

 

PCs with 3.2 GHz processors aren?t hard to find today, also quite inexpensive.

1024MB RAM you can add to any PC for a couple of hundred $s ? great if it comes with one.

A 40GB HDD to run your standard applications and a secondary one (external) to store your raw footage, 200GB if poosible, 7200rpm or higher (do they exist higher than 7200?)

Most PCs now come with decent graphic cards, but just make sure it is the latest from ATI ? shouldn?t disappoint. You?ll need dual video output, because a secondary monitor is essential.. look for second hand ones, Sony broadcast types. (it will make a difference).

Sound card is also important? If you?re going to mix soundtracks in 5.1 channels you should make sure that you get a PC with a 5.1 sound card, with either optical or dig. coaxial out.

If you invest some $$ on a 5.1/2channel processor/amp and 5.1 speaker set up, you?ll have everything you need. When you listen to the sound the way it should, you?ll find it easier making decisions. The 5.1 speakers and the secondary CRT monitor will inspire you every minute you?re in your study!

 

You?ll need DVD burner too ?course!

 

ps. I'm new here.. so, hi everybody. :D

Edited December 11, 2004 by Marko Hila

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> (external)

 

Why? The fastest interfaces are intended for internal devices, and while it's possible to stack serial ATA drives on the desk by the machine, there's no real reason to.

 

> 7200rpm or higher (do they exist higher than 7200?)

 

Yes, but they're very expensive, and it's not necessary.

 

> Most PCs now come with decent graphic cards, but just make sure it is the latest

> from ATI ? shouldn?t disappoint.

 

Completely unnecessary. Any graphics card released since the mid-90s will have a competent enough directdraw overlay for video work, even down to the onboard stuff on some lower-end motherboards. I wouldn't especially reccomend it, though, and hey - while you're at it, might as well play a little Half Life, eh?

 

> You?ll need dual video output, because a secondary monitor is essential..

 

Nice but not essential, especially if you have a decent broadcast monitor to look at the video.

 

> monitor... Sony broadcast types.

 

I don't quite know what you mean here. You mention a dual-head video board, which is fine, but then talk about broadcast monitors when there's really no such thing as broadcast VGA or DVI monitors.

 

Personally I prefer an LCD display for the user interface, because they're flicker-free, sharp, and don't create too much heat. You'd then look for a broadcast monitor to view the output from your video DAC.

 

Phil

[Guest Marko Hila]

?7200rpm or higher (do they exist higher than 7200?)?

Yes, but they're very expensive, and it's not necessary.

 

YES, it is! Real time editing doesn?t like anything lower than 7200rpm. There?s no ?but? about it, period!

 

?Most PCs now come with decent graphic cards, but just make sure it is the latest

from ATI ? shouldn?t disappoint.?

 

Completely unnecessary. Any graphics card released since the mid-90s will have a competent enough directdraw overlay for video work, even down to the onboard stuff on some lower-end motherboards. I wouldn't especially reccomend it, though, and hey - while you're at it, might as well play a little Half Life, eh?

 

I didn?t say he should have one of them, as most PCs do come with ok graphic cards. I only gave an advice of what I think it?s the GREATEST graphic card manufacturer. Tell me otherwise! :blink:

 

 

?You?ll need dual video output, because a secondary monitor is essential..?

 

Nice but not essential, especially if you have a decent broadcast monitor to look at the video.

 

What?s wrong having a 600 line monitor, SONY 14? BROADCAST TYPES (e.g. PVM-14M2MDU)?next to the PC monitor?! I believe CRTs are the best displays for chroma values. If your project is worth it, I recommand you to look at one of these. Even a standard TV if you can't find a monitor of that description...

 

?monitor... Sony broadcast types.?

 

I don't quite know what you mean here. You mention a dual-head video board, which is fine, but then talk about broadcast monitors when there's really no such thing as broadcast VGA or DVI monitors.

 

There are hips of different VGA to component converters in this God blessed consumer market. Are you saying you have never heard of one them before? I mean, here, on planet Earth?

 

Personally I prefer an LCD display for the user interface, because they're flicker-free, sharp, and don't create too much heat. You'd then look for a broadcast monitor to view the output from your video DAC.

 

LCDs are the worst of all kinds! They?re so flourish. You can?t distinguish chroma values. Especially with green. You can totally misjudge the chroma of your picture!

 

Marko

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> YES, it is! Real time editing doesn?t like anything lower than 7200rpm. There?s

> no ?but? about it, period!

 

Actually I cut for ages on 5400rpm drives, but my point here was that there's no need for

 

>> ?You?ll need dual video output, because a secondary monitor is essential..?

>...

> What?s wrong having a 600 line monitor, SONY 14? BROADCAST TYPES (e.g.

> PVM-14M2MDU)?next to the PC monitor?!

 

Nothing, but you won't be able to drive that effectively from your inbuilt graphics board, which is what you're implying. At this point you're driving it from your firewire video DAC, or whatever other video I/O board you have.

 

>> there's really no such thing as broadcast VGA or DVI monitors.

...

> There are hips of different VGA to component converters in this God blessed

> consumer market. Are you saying you have never heard of one them before?

 

You don't want a VGA to component convertor, you want a firewire/SDI/whatever to component convertor, depending what your I/O board and VTR is capable of.

 

> LCDs are the worst of all kinds! They?re so flourish. You can?t distinguish chroma

> values. Especially with green. You can totally misjudge the chroma of your

> picture!

 

...which is why I prefer them for the user interface, as I said. It would help if you actually read what I'd posted before attempting to criticise it.

 

Phil

Edited December 12, 2004 by Phil Rhodes

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

That sounds pretty cool actually. You recording music or just film related sound?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mostly video editing/post sound and music now but I've had several musicians/bands over that wanted to record in a different place. I also recently shot some interviews in there as it's ultra quiet.

[Jon Allen]

Hard Drives: 7200 is good, 5400 is about the lowest I'd ever go; scratch that, 7200 now is the lowest. Considering it's darned hard to find a 5400 rpm harddrive that's large enough with a decent seek time- especially when we're considering the advent of HD on desktops- simply put, we pretty much NEED the extra thouroughput nowadays.

 

Video Cards: This isn't a gaming machine, we don't need the most advanced 3D-tetrapixel-billion-calculation-a-second board. What video editing is 2d- and phil is completely correct: Any board since 95-ish should be more than decent. I've cut on a computer that had the voodoo3 2000 agp card, no problems at all- even ran quake 3 arena at 90 frames/sec. Woohoo!

Which is why I didn't think to bother upgrading to the radeon 9800/600 or that crazy-ass dual dvi monstrosity from nvidia- the fx5200 ultra is overkill for editing.

What really will make a difference with different effects is #1)processor speed and #2)amount/speed of RAM- but processor is waaaay more important.

 

Displays: Uhhh, both of you are correct, but for some reason you're arguing....

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Mostly video editing/post sound and music now but I've had several musicians/bands over that wanted to record in a different place.  I also recently shot some interviews in there as it's ultra quiet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds good. What sort of equipment do you have? I wanted to build a sound recording studio at one point, but it's so damn expensive. I wouldn't go below a 96khz 24bit recorder, and even those cost a bomb. (Great for making DVD-Audio discs, with the 5.1 mix they sound awesome)

 

 

Oh and about the computer thing. Personally I'd never go below a 7200. If you have a brilliant system, it won't be much good because you won't be able to read the data fast enough.

 

And graphics cards don't really have a great deal to do with editing. I use a Geforce 5200. No problems at all. After all it is only 2d rendering. It's not like the graphics card is having to process billions of polygons e.t.c.

Edited December 13, 2004 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

Sounds good. What sort of equipment do you have? I wanted to build a sound recording studio at one point, but it's so damn expensive. I wouldn't go below a 96khz 24bit recorder, and even those cost a bomb. (Great for making DVD-Audio discs, with the 5.1 mix they sound awesome)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have Nuendo software and the EMU 1820m interface. It has the same ADC's as Pro-tools TDM. It will do 96khz 24 at a reduced number of tracks at a time. I usually record at 44.1 though for music and stick to 48 for sound for picture. I've got a Behringer 12 channel mixer, DAT machine, Event audio monitors, DBX Driverack (1/3rd Octave EQ/pink noise genertor) and a Focusrite pre-amp is on the way.

 

Sometimes a buddy of mine will bring over his Pro-tools LE system along with a bunch on microphones to record his band.

 

The EMU system can be had for $500 and it's amazing. A little buggy at fist but it really is a marvel and you can do full 5.1 mixes in Nuendo. I think the next thing I might get is 3 more monitors and a sub for surround.

 

The room is quiet enough I was able to record a pocket-watch ticking with a shotgun mic that had to be gained almost all the way up. You could pick up a mouse fart with that much gain so you need a very quiet room.

Edited December 14, 2004 by J. Lamar King

[Tenolian Bell]

Well, I should hope so!

 

One thing I've found with Macs is that the hardware is REDICULOSELY overpriced. I was just customising a Mac on their web site.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Daniel for someone who claims not to use Mac you sure have sweeping general opinions of the platform. Admittedly if one chooses to work with Mac is going against the grain, and in some circumstances it is easier to work with a Wintel macine.

 

One of the problems I've seen with those who build there own machines, (one of the many problems). Is they may purchase a fast Intel or AMD chip, then mount it onto a crappy cheap motherboard and I/O bus, then starve it for memory. What ends up happening is this powerful CPU sits idle much of the time waiting for the rest of the system to catch up. Then the myriad of problems getting 3rd party software to work with a home built system.

 

While when buying a Mac you are buying a complete system built around and optimized for its Power PC chip. You have a Unix based OS with 32 bit GUI. Apple standardizes the use of API's to make it easy for developers to make optimum software for this complete machine. By the way Power PC based processors are about to have a big surgence coming soon.

 

It may cost a bit more but you get quite a bit right out of the box, before you add or download any 3rd party software.

 

Editing software, DVD authoring, photo album- with built in digital camera drivers, mail, PDF Reader, AOL Instant Message - video and audio, music juke box, video payer, font book, browser, calender, scientific calculator, DVD player, music composer, periphreal sync, script writer, address book, screen capture, bluetooth sync, WiFi, processor- memory - system activity monitor, printer drivers, automatically saves passwords to a keychain app, digital color meter for calibrating monitor. You can access the open source Unix core of the OS and write whatever you want to it.

 

 

Apple continues to improve all of these apps with OS updates no cost to the user.

And many new features are set to come in '05 with the release of the next OS upgrade.

 

You certainly don't have to use Mac if you don't want, but it is an option. And options are always good, we would certianly be stuck to something plagued with problems and no alternative if there were only one computer platform.