I've been Banned from Reduser

[Adrian Sierkowski]

because the budget sometimes dictates what we shoot, other times it's dictated by producers/directors wanting to shoot on the newest coolest thing, and other times because you need one aspect of a product that you can't as easily or well get in another (in red, for example, shooting a whole hard drive worth of footage without cutting for say an interview, but wanting 35mm DoF , something you can't do with film, and something you can't do as well/easily with clumsy adapter setups-- just a quick example)

[Thomas James]

I thought that was the whole philosophy behind the Red Scarlet. That its the cameraman not the camera and a Scarlet in the hands of an talented cameraman can outperform a less talented Red One shooter. I am all for smaller more humble formats but I still want a powerful tool. Why does anyone have to put up with aliasing artifacts that a DSLR produces?

 

When I bought my first high definition camera for $2500 in 2004 everyone told me that I should just get a good standard definition Panasonic DVX100. However I felt that I needed high definition because a blurry picture is still a blurry picture no matter how talented you are. And likewise with the Scarlet 3K at 120 frames per second sounds not only like a compelling choice but a real need.

[Stephen Williams]

Why "bitch" about unnecessary products that need to be improved. Why not just shoot with something that is already superior?

 

Welcome to the forum, I like your attitude.

[Brook Willard]

Man, I'm sorry I missed all these threads... sounds like it was quite the clambake.

 

Glad that you're back over there, Stephen.

 

Isn't there an industry saying, "you know you've made it if you've been banned at Reduser," or something like that? ;)

 

Heheheheh :)

[Thomas James]

What I don't like about digital is the fact that it captures all my pictures in square boxes while film has a more natural random grain pattern. I don't live in a box and I don't like my pictures captured in boxes and my eyes do not capture images in square boxes. Of course when I explained that to Jim he got upset and accused me of never bothering to show up and see a real 4K digital projection. But has Jim bothered to show up at the laboratory in Italy doing research on advanced machine vision systems?

[Guest]

Man, I'm sorry I missed all these threads... sounds like it was quite the clambake.

 

Oh you have no idea, we had an absolutely gay old time. :D

 

But come on guys, we need to end the mocking depictions of Jim J, he's not a public figure like Paris Hilton who begs to be made fun of.

 

The discussion as to the merits of the RED camera should continue of course. And I expect there will be a few jokes added in here and there.

 

Film on the other hand shall not be mocked or made fun of in any way, I forbid it. B)

 

I must go now and try and find that gold mine so I can pay for the developing of the last 12 feet of 35mm I just shot.

 

R,

[David Rakoczy]

Film on the other hand shall not be mocked or made fun of in any way

 

R,

 

 

Hear Hear!

[Stephen Williams]

Man, I'm sorry I missed all these threads... sounds like it was quite the clambake.

 

Glad that you're back over there, Stephen.

 

 

 

Heheheheh :)

 

Hi Brook,

 

Anyone posted a link to this thread? The thread in question was http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.ph...0095&page=3

 

Best wishes

 

Stephen

[Keith Walters]

But come on guys, we need to end the mocking depictions of Jim J, he's not a public figure like Paris Hilton who begs to be made fun of.

What? The self-proclaimed "Mad Scientist of Orange County" who's made a catchcry out "not knowing what he was doing"?. :blink:

 

He's buttered his goddam toast, now he has to lie in it.

 

He's just got to learn, you can't make an omlette without breaking wind.

Dammit, he's made his bed, it's up to him to ensure it falls marmalade side up.

The trouble with people like him is, he wants to have his cake, and ice cream too.

 

The discussion as to the merits of the RED camera should continue of course. And I expect there will be a few jokes added in here and there.

 

Unfortunately there's not much to distinguish the two sometimes.

 

You know what would be nice: If there was a tightly controlled sticky at the start of the RED folder where answers to FAQs, and FAAPS (Frequently Argued About Points), could be posted with ZERO input from the RED camp.

If they want to argue the points raised they could do so in a regular access thread, but making the sticky basically "read-only" would prevent overzealous RED-Heads from deliberately starting fights to get contentious threads closed.

 

Suitable subjects might be:

What exactly do they mean by "4K"

What exactly do they mean by "RAW"

What exactly do they mean by "Dynamic Range"

Woss' all this about IR and hot mirrors etc etc?

What exactly do they mean by "Rolling Shutter"?

WTF does "Democratization of the Media" mean?

WTF is Emmanuel talking about this week?

etc etc

 

Film on the other hand shall not be mocked or made fun of in any way, I forbid it. B)

R,

Also in the sticky (or a separate one) could be some testimony from people who have actually shot a significant amount film, how many times they've actually encountered all the terrible drawbacks the Digi-philes are so fond of repeating off each other (you know scratches, processing errors, hairs in the gate, fogging, those sorts of disasters, which for most practical purposes, simply never happen unless you're complete moron).

[Guest stevie wara]

Welcome to the forum, I like your attitude.

B)

[Stephen Williams]

Suitable subjects might be:

What exactly do they mean by "4K"

What exactly do they mean by "RAW"

What exactly do they mean by "Dynamic Range"

Woss' all this about IR and hot mirrors etc etc?

What exactly do they mean by "Rolling Shutter"?

WTF does "Democratization of the Media" mean?

WTF is Emmanuel talking about this week?

etc etc

 

Keith,

 

You need to write something down, send it to Phil for proof reading. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Emmanuel has been quiet since he received his cameras.

 

Known Bugs build by build would also be helpful, starting with 16 which was very stable IMO, Brook would you write that one?

 

Stephen

[John Sprung]

You need to write something down, send it to Phil for proof reading.

 

Actually I did a list of reported issues and work-arounds a while back. When I get back to the office, I can post it again.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Keith Walters]

Keith,

 

You need to write something down, send it to Phil for proof reading. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Emmanuel has been quiet since he received his cameras.

 

Stephen

I'll get right onto it. I've already done quite a lot of stuff in this forum over the years that could be re-cycled.

 

To stop certain people's noses from getting too much out of joint, I think the format needs to something along the lines of an exam paper, (for example):

 

RED refer to the Mysterium sensor as being a "4K" device. Many people dispute this figure; what exactly are their arguments for doing so?

 

RED refer to their compression system as "Redcode RAW". Many people object to their use of the term "RAW". Why is this?

 

RED claim the dynamic range of the RED One is about 11.5 stops. Many other people assert it is closer to 8-9 stops, which RED attribute to differences in measurement techniques. What are these differences?

[Stephen Williams]

Actually I did a list of reported issues and work-arounds a while back. When I get back to the office, I can post it again.

 

 

-- J.S.

 

Hi John,

 

That would be great, every time I use a Red camera there is a different firmware version, if it's just for a days shoot I can't justify 2 days of testing prior.

 

Stephen

[Stephen Williams]

I'll get right onto it. I've already done quite a lot of stuff in this forum over the years that could be re-cycled.

 

To stop certain people's noses from getting too much out of joint, I think the format needs to something along the lines of an exam paper, (for example):

 

RED refer to the Mysterium sensor as being a "4K" device. Many people dispute this figure; what exactly are their arguments for doing so?

 

RED refer to their compression system as "Redcode RAW". Many people object to their use of the term "RAW". Why is this?

 

RED claim the dynamic range of the RED One is about 11.5 stops. Many other people assert it is closer to 8-9 stops, which RED attribute to differences in measurement techniques. What are these differences?

 

Hi Kieth,

 

That sounds most helpful. What I would like is that this forum to be the most accurate quick resource for DOP's wanting to use a Red camera, without having to wade through heaps of useless posts.

 

Stephen

[Tom Lowe]

Stephen, if you are un-banned, why aren't you over at Reduser commenting on the MX vs F35 comparison charts? ;)

 

[Francis Kuhn]

Stephen, if you are un-banned, why aren't you over at Reduser commenting on the MX vs F35 comparison charts? ;)

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

I thought the Other Cameras stuff was now off limits at REDuser.

 

-Fran

[Tom Lowe]

I think Jim is making special exceptions for MX vs Sony and Arri comparisons. ;)

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen, if you are un-banned, why aren't you over at Reduser commenting on the MX vs F35 comparison charts? ;)

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

I got a bad taste in my mouth, in any case most of the people worth talking to are in this thread or on CML. Seems rather boring there at the moment, I will go there when I have time.

 

Personally I am only interested how MX performs in the 50-500 ISO rangee tungsten & daylight. I normally light to ISO 200 Tungsten & work with 50 ISO daylight. Looks like a solution to a problem I don't have.

 

I am happy to use RED cameras with MX sensors & cameras from many other companies, reliability & workflow is far more important to me, which is why 35mm gets used where possible even for internet only size images.

 

Best Stephen

[Francis Kuhn]

I think Jim is making special exceptions for MX vs Sony and Arri comparisons. ;)

 

Thanks, Tom. It seems like Canon would be a good one to include in that group since they are much closer in price point (and in appeal to the indie film maker) to RED. I read the REDuser Other Cameras forum quite a bit and found it very helpful. It's a shame it's gone.

 

-Fran

[Stephen Williams]

I think Jim is making special exceptions for MX vs Sony and Arri comparisons. ;)

 

Looking forward to see if that policy changes when new equipment is released. Why not Canon?

[Thomas James]

If Jim Jannard had produced a DSLR camera like the Canon with all those line skipping aliasing artifacts he would have never heard the end of all the complaints from disastisfied users who expect more from a company like Red. So until Canon comes out with a DSLR that can properly scale a picture I think it is reasonable of Jim not to dedicate a forum to a camera that is not even in the same class.

[Stephen Williams]

If Jim Jannard had produced a DSLR camera like the Canon with all those line skipping aliasing artifacts he would have never heard the end of all the complaints from disastisfied users who expect more from a company like Red. So until Canon comes out with a DSLR that can properly scale a picture I think it is reasonable of Jim not to dedicate a forum to a camera that is not even in the same class.

 

Whilst the resoloution is not 3.2k like RED, they are a useful in many situarions.

[Thomas James]

The complaint would not be the final resolution of 1920 x 1080p which can be good and close enough to 2K but rather the fact that the Canon has to process an 18 megapixel picture which is way more than its chips can handle which results in lines of resolution being thrown away while other lines of resolution which are too fine to be enlarged out of proportion.

 

Had Red miniturized its Red One into a DSLR we would have had an 8 megapixel 3840 x 2160p chip that could have outputed a scaled 1920 x 1080p image with no line skipping aliasing artifacts. However this camera would not have been taken seriously as a digital still camera because it falls short in the megapixel wars. But we have to remember that such a camera is a hybrid camera as opposed to a specialized dedicated still camera so it would have its own unique advantages such as a far superior burst shooting mode than what we would find in a specialized dedicated still camera.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Thomas James

[Francis Kuhn]

So until Canon comes out with a DSLR that can properly scale a picture I think it is reasonable of Jim not to dedicate a forum to a camera that is not even in the same class.

 

Hi Thomas,

 

As I recall, the REDuser forum was called Other Cameras. It was not dedicated simply to Canon cameras. It was a great place to discuss other products within the context of RED's own products. It seems like most of the discussions have simply migrated to the Off Topic forum as demonstrated by the recent RED MX vs Sony F35 discussion. RED looked quite good in that comparison and I noticed no one calling for the thread to be closed as, after all it's not SONYuser.

 

-Fran