Lighting in tiny apartments

[DavidSloan]

I just wrapped a DVX shoot, tonight, and it was truly a nightmare. I have never been in a situation of lighting such a tiny space, and it was hell having to deal with shadows and trying to motivate the sources. It also wasn't easy to deal with the fact that the director is a coverage BEAST, and wanted to cover each master shot with a 5 to 6 tighter angles...something which goes againts every cinematic grain in my body. I had one large window in the apartment which I used to allow as much daylight to come into the apartment as possible, and the rest I just used bounce boards or helped it a bit by pointing a 1k into the ceiling with CTB...I haven't seen the results yet but I'm quite sure I will be disapointed. I hope never to be caught in such an undesiriable situation again, but in case I will does anyone have any tips on lighting small places other then just off the ceiling bouce? Keep in mind I'm a person who really doesn't like shadows in the frame, but when the location is so small there is no way to hide them! Any tips would be appreciated.

 

If this post seems wierd keep in mind that it's 12:50AM and I was on set from 8:30 AM in a tiny apt with 15 people!

[David Mullen ASC]

I can't really answer the question since I have no idea what's wrong with a shadow! Lights create shadows -- someone stands by a window in daytime, they throw a shadow in the opposite direction, unless you fill everything in until it is shadowless.

 

But if you want shadowless lighting, I guess bouncing the light from every off-camera position would do it for you... not that I understand why you'd want to do that.

[Rik Andino]

I know what you mean about working in tiny apartments

That NYC productions almost all the time...

It's a fu**ing circus.

 

As for lighting tiny apartments, one word

KINOFLOs

 

They're the best most versatile soft-light you can use

And they don't suck all the power from your tiny apartments.

 

I would also recommend inkies

But you don't want hard light or shadows....

 

Off the topic...

Is anybody psyche about this years superbowl?

 

 

 

 

KARMA bums

[DavidSloan]

KINOFLOS...no doubt about that! unfortunately I had none. I feel kinda dumb cause I ended watching all the dailies at the director's apt after I posted this and most of the footage looked great! lol My perfcetionist, delirious paranoia got the best of me, tonight.

 

By the way, David: A while ago I posted a question about various ways to emulate a sunset look on interiors and you suggested a blue fill with a deep warm tone coming from the windows, which I believe you used Deschanel as a reference. I just have to tell you that that has become an absolute staple of mine, and let me tell you it's a crowd pleaser every time. Thank you :)

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Not only that, but small apartments are almost always painted white as to make them bigger and "airier". And for establishing shots you end up in a corner with the camera flush against the wall with a much to wide lens on just to get it in. It's hell on earth and never, ever looks good.

 

I got offered a feature that was 90% of that and declined. That's how much I like it.

[Ed Nyankori]

I had a similar experience this past weekend (dvx,small set,old house w/ horrible wiring problems)...Kinos and a Dedo light kit were the solution. It was the first time Id lit w/ them as the DP and wow, what great tools...

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

On my last feature I got stuck in a 10 x 12 foot room in a house. The biggest problem besides the small space was that one wall had three floor to ceiling windows in it. For day scenes the solution pretty much was to light through the windows with a bounce opposite then cheat the mini-blind closed on the window that always wound up in the background of one of the close ups. I closed it just enough not to blow out.

 

Since I didn't have any big lights or HMI's I decided to not fight the room and just use various combinations of open and closed blinds to modify the real sunlight which was pretty good untill about 2:00 in the afternoon. A couple of times I used Kino Flos to carry us into evening and on days when there was no sun. I tried bouncing a light into the ceiling once but it looked so damn flat I actually pushed to(and did) re-shoot the scene I did that in. :unsure:

 

We had a small table lamp and also a light spilling in from a bathroom that we established to motivate the night scenes. The table lamp was always mimicked with a Tweenie, flagged and scrimmed with 216 on the barn doors. The light from the bathroom was another Tweenie either shone direct or bounced off foam core. I then just sneaked in a china ball for fill here and there.

Edited January 24, 2005 by J. Lamar King

[Joe Sexton]

Here is a still of a shot I did with a DVX in a small apartment. The living room was about 12x12 with the kitchen in the background. I lit it mostly with fluorescent light.

[Mark Sasahara]

Superbowl? Patriots +6. GO PATS!

 

I agree with David, shadows are okay. Do you mean camera shadows?

 

One thing that is helpful is to put CTO on the windows. That way your light will be tungsten flavored and any additional lights will retain full power since they are not gelled CTB.

 

I'm slowly buying Kino Flo's for my kit. Nice light, less amps. There are some real nightmare electrical situations in NYC. Kino tubes can be paper taped to the ceiling and the cables camoflaged. Duve or cinefoil teasers can be hung to help control the light. Selective lighting, you don't necessarily need to flood the place with light. Also a nice trick when you need a little extra is to switch the shutter speed to 1/24. I haven't transferred anything shooting that way but regular movements look okay in broadcast.

 

I think the worst thing about shooting in small apartments is the heat build up and stifling lack of air. This past summer was pretty hot and I was constantly opening windows, or turning on the A/C between takes, on several shoots.

 

Lack of amps is a drag and traceability. When I lived in VT, most apartments have electric stoves, so you could rent a distro box that plugged into the outlet for the stove and suddenly you had 50 amps of central distro. I forget if that was 220V brought down to 120V.

 

If they've got a A/C, or washer dryer hook up that can be used, but I think you'll need to convert 220V to 120V.

[Greg Gross]

Was it possible to light room intensely enough to eliminate shadows? Your

actors could move about pretty much shadow free. Lighting from above and

floor stands above camera with downward direction,reflectors. You'd pretty

much have to except the light the actors received. Experiment with different

light intensities, just enough to get rid of shadows. This is assuming that you

wanted no shadows. Cassavetes's style of lighting.

 

 

Greg Gross

[Sol Train Saihati]

What do you call those poles that extend from wall to wall? They have suction pads on each end and are a consistant lifesaver in these situations. Just dont go too wide!

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Polecats, Autopoles, Wallbreakers, Barracuda's. A loved child has many names, as they say where I'm from. :D Take your pick.

[DavidSloan]

Polecats are trash...completely unrealiable gear. Go for a wall spreader, a la speed rail.

[Jeremy]

So... I'm actually shooting in a tiny apartment this weekend. The bed + living room + kitchen + bathroom are kind of all the same room, but I really like the layout. The ceiling is really low, and there are two windows, one facing the west, and we'll be shooting in the evening, so there will be some sunlight coming in.

 

Somehow in this tiny apartment there are also 7 overhead light fixtures. I replaced all the bulbs with 100 watt and 200 watt bulbs. Plus put in a lamp with a 75 watt bulb. I did light readings tonight (reading for 500 ASA -- will be shooting 5218) and the whole place (under / around an overhead light) was in the T2 - T4 range, without any added light from the windows.

 

All the camera work will be handheld, and I'll be following the subject around the apartment. I'm also planning on putting white bounce cards on the floor, since we probably won't be getting the ground. Is there any reason that you can think of, in this situation, to not just light with all practicals + the sunlight from the window?

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

[DavidSloan]

Sunlight and 100 watt bulbs? I hope you've worked out the color temp issue! Also, if the window is in the shot, it's gonna be blown to all hell, and unless you want that you should consider 85ND9 gel for the windows to correct for the color temp and bring down the sunlight to a 2-3 over, range. Also, the practicals are gonna look awfully warm, and probably won't look good on skin tones, at all. You're better off taping daylight Kinos to the ceiling, or bouncing HMIs, if you're gonna use daylight.

[Jeremy]

Sunlight and 100 watt bulbs?  I hope you've worked out the color temp issue!  Also, if the window is in the shot, it's gonna be blown to all hell, and unless you want that you should consider 85ND9 gel for the windows to correct for the color temp and bring down the sunlight to a 2-3 over, range.  Also, the practicals are gonna look awfully warm, and probably won't look good on skin tones, at all.  You're better off taping daylight Kinos to the ceiling, or bouncing HMIs, if you're gonna use daylight.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have CTO and ND for the windows; I'm also still considering putting different colored sheets over the windows to throw in more color.

 

I actually shot a short film in which I used mostly practical lighting on 7218 to test out its range... that stock really is amazing... and I know the orange skin tone that practical bulbs produce. It would cut down on my light, but what temp. do you think it would raise me to if I put 1/4 CTB on each bulb? Or maybe just some of them, so I get the orange look in some parts of the room, and a slightly cooler look in others...?

 

I like to play with color temperature, sometimes.

[Chris Keth]

Is there any reason that you can think of, in this situation, to not just light with all practicals + the sunlight from the window?

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, Quarter CTB has a mired value of -30 and the normal color temperature for those bulbs is 2900K. So 2900K is 345 is mireds. The new color temp you'd have is 315 mireds which is 3175K or essentially white for tungsten film.

 

 

Practicals only usually isn't the most attractive lighting you can get. It'll get you a stop but it probably won't be that pretty.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Christopher D. Keth

[Guest aartaxx]

Tiny apartments. I'd go with clip lights. I just wrapped a feature with the DVX and we had one house with very small rooms and I was not allowed to drill into the ceilings and polecats and wall spreaders were not in the kit. I got extremely lightweight painters poles from Home Depot and put them on C-stands and armed them out over the set with clip lights on them. Instant track lighting in a pinch.

 

Philips has a new bulb. Naturals. They have a blue coating on the glass. They do not cast that orange glow that you get from a standard GE bulb. They are much closer to the look of your tungsten units after you've just put a bulb in. So slap a light CTB on and you're ready to match Daylight pretty easy. THe bulbs come in a variety of wattages and look beautiful on skin tones with or without diff.

[Rik Andino]

Tiny apartments.  I'd go with clip lights.  I just wrapped a feature with the DVX and we had one house with very small rooms and I was not allowed to drill into the ceilings and polecats and wall spreaders were not in the kit.  I got extremely lightweight painters poles from Home Depot and put them on C-stands and armed them out over the set with clip lights on them.  Instant track lighting in a pinch.

 

Philips has a new bulb.  Naturals.  They have a blue coating on the glass.  They do not cast that orange glow that you get from a standard GE bulb.  They are much closer to the look of your tungsten units after you've just put a bulb in.  So slap a light CTB on and you're ready to match Daylight pretty easy.  THe bulbs come in a variety of wattages and look beautiful on skin tones with or without diff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Clip Lights (Scoop lights like we like to call 'em) work for video

But they might not be so great for film

The home depot lights can't take bulbs over 100watts

You might need more light for film (Even 7218)

 

Also those new "natural bulbs" will still have some color temp problem.

 

Kinoflos are the best choice for tiny apartments

They put out a lot of light, and they're low wattage

 

Inkies, Tweenies, Omni's, Dedo-lights(if you can afford them) can help as well

Find low wattage lights...tiny apartments usually have bad wiring

 

Chinese Paper Lanterns are always good for a quick fill also

& you can use clip lights for a kicker or something

but don't completely rely on these for film.

 

You're best option is a good KINOFLO package-->they're amazing.