shooting in the dark

[Joshua Rheaume]

:ph34r: so i'm in the dark, how do i shoot the scene without a grainy picture?

[David Mullen ASC]

:ph34r: so i'm in the dark, how do i shoot the scene without a grainy picture?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Use more light.

 

Darkness has nothing to do with using low light levels. I can make a scene shot in full sunlight look dark.

[DavidSloan]

I think you're assuming that dark scenes are shot without light, which is not the case. You light for darkness. What exactly are you looking to do?

[Joshua Rheaume]

I think you're assuming that dark scenes are shot without light, which is not the case.  You light for darkness.  What exactly are you looking to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

I was planing on doing a shot with a man running away from a bad game of Russian roulette (leading to the death of his close brother) into the night searching for a bus. I was hoping to get kinda an eerie affect with the street light's, being the only real source of light (in the frame) I was also hoping to get the light from the street light's to shine on the wet street. (for a more dramatic shot). I am sorry if that didn't make much since, I?m just dreaming this up right now. you seem like somebody who has woken up smelt the coffee and still gone on to do wonderful things. thank you for your help.

 

Joshua

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't think you'll be able to afford to light a night exterior scene for that look, not if you're talking about shooting in DV and want to avoid a noisy image. You'd need to create your own pools of light using something like PAR's, either rigged to real streetlamps or coming from a condor crane above the streetlamps. You're talking about generators, cranes, rigging, a street wetdown from a water truck, etc.

 

I'd find a bustop (or create one) next to an apartment building close to the sidewalk from which you can shine down some 1K PAR 64's (narrow spot) from the rooftop or a third floor balconey, to create pools of light surrounded by darkness (unless you find a location with a really brightly-lit background as well.)

[Joshua Rheaume]

I don't think you'll be able to afford to light a night exterior scene for that look, not if you're talking about shooting in DV and want to avoid a noisy image.  You'd need to create your own pools of light using something like PAR's, either rigged to real streetlamps or coming from a condor crane above the streetlamps.  You're talking about generators, cranes, rigging, a street wetdown from a water truck, etc.

 

I'd find a bustop (or create one) next to an apartment building close to the sidewalk from which you can shine down some 1K PAR 64's (narrow spot) from the rooftop or a third floor balconey, to create pools of light surrounded by darkness (unless you find a location with a really brightly-lit background as well.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

David,

 

Thank you for your help. I apologize if I have been wasting your time with lousy questions, but if you don't mind I do have four more that I have been dying to get an answer to.

 

#1, can a film camera get a grainy or "noisy" picture due to lack of light?

 

#2, how can I get my movie in a festival such as sundance?

 

#3, how do amateur film makers get to work with the pro's?

 

#4, how do movies I have never heard about, without any famous actors/actresses get into movie stores such as "Hollywood video"?

 

 

And once again thank you for your help, I greatly appreciate it.

 

 

-joshua

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, regarding noise (video) or grain (film) and the lack of light, if I wanted a pitch black frame, I could get that in film or video with no grain or noise. The problem is when you want some part of the frame to be at normal exposure but your film or video camera is not sensitive enough to achieve normal exposure in very low light levels. In film you could switch to a faster, more sensitive film stock, which has more grain, and you could push-process it further to compensate for underexposure, which adds even more grain. With video, you could boost the gain beyond 0 db to compensate -- and get more noise.

 

So the key is to have enough light in the areas of the frame you want to be of normal brightness so that you don't have to boost the gain of the video camera, or use fast film.

 

Trouble is that many low-end consumer cameras start to automatically boost the gain as soon as the lens aperture is at its widest. So first off, you need to manually set the gain and lens aperture and then light the shot until it looks the way you want it to.

 

You can submit a film to any festival, assuming you pay any fees they require -- but considering the thousands of films that get submitted to Sundance, for example, for only a few dozen open slots, odds are not in your favor. The movie has to be pretty good BUT also fit into the festival programmers' idea of the type of movie they want in the festival. It helps to have some sort of connections in the indie world, for example, be a well-respected producer of indie films or have a cast with appeal to indie audiences.

 

As for amateurs working with pros, it depends on what that means. Many films have relatively inexperienced people in some entry-level positions (office PA, film loader, etc.) but there are a limited number of openings on each film for those positions and they may not be as fulfulling as you'd hope. I certainly never had a chance working with pros when I was beginning, until I started hiring pros to work for me on features I was shooting.

 

Movies are bought by distributors, some specializing in theatrical and some in home video. A distributor looks for several things, all market-driven: award recognition, marketable genre, name actors -- SOMETHING, anything, that can help sell the movie to some audience out there. If you make a horror film with enough production value, even with a no-name cast, there's a chance that someone will distribute it because it's a popular genre in home video rentals, often sold more by the cover on the box than the cast in the movie. Not that a distributor always pays well for these films -- many people who have sold their films to a distributor for home video release wait years to see any money trickle in after the initial very low sale.

 

There are all sorts of small markets for select audiences. You make a gay romantic comedy with an attractive cast, I'm sure you can probably sell it somewhere. You make a kid's adventure film with a few acceptable digital effects in it, you can probably sell it. Even art films have audiences -- the trouble with that market is that you have to win some awards or something to be able to sell it to an audience if they've never heard of you or your cast.

 

This is a business and you have to really think from the distributor's perspective on how they are going to sell this, and to whom, and how much can they spend on promotion before it takes away any chance of making a profit.

[Rik Andino]

#3, how do amateur film makers get to work with the pro's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, like David said you can start from the bottom up but this is hard

Although many & most people do it in the film industry

 

You can also start in the indie market and work into the higher market

Check out sites like Mandy.com or shootingpeople.com

Someone is always looking for someone

 

You should also consider going to film school to learn more about filmmaking

And how to get into "pro" sets

 

#4, how do movies I have never heard about, without any famous actors/actresses get into movie stores such as "Hollywood video"?

And once again thank you for your help, I greatly appreciate it.

-joshua

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well the way this is done is going to Video Distributors

They'll buy almost anything if it seems profitable

Although they don't always buy them at great prices

So don't expect to be rich doing this.

 

If you're interested in doing this keep in mind YOU WON'T GET RICH

The best selling straigh-to-video releases usually have B-list celebrities

And T&A is usually a major selling point on most video releases

Usually the most popular straight-to-video genres are

Horror and Urban Films--Comedies are also very popular

(but many of them are gear towards an urban market)

 

I've shot for a production company that does straight-to-vide

They've got a deal with Maverick so anything they do is distributed

Usually the attitude of these videos is just to get it made

Quality sucks, story sucks, usually everything sucks cept the cover

But distributors don't care since the motto is teens will rent anything :blink:

 

They buy the film for really low sometimes even under 50K

And make at least 4x that much (so it's good business)

Sometime it's not about making good films but making good money

Hell even Hollywood studios function on this priniciple (everyone's gotta eat) :)

[Joshua Rheaume]

Well, like David said you can start from the bottom up but this is hard

Although many & most people do it in the film industry

 

You can also start in the indie market and work into the higher market

Check out sites like Mandy.com or shootingpeople.com

Someone is always looking for someone

 

You should also consider going to film school to learn more about filmmaking

And how to get into "pro" sets

Well the way this is done is going to Video Distributors

They'll buy almost anything if it seems profitable

Although they don't always buy them at great prices

So don't expect to be rich doing this.

 

If you're interested in doing this keep in mind YOU WON'T GET RICH

The best selling straigh-to-video releases usually have B-list celebrities

And T&A is usually a major selling point on most video releases

Usually the most popular straight-to-video genres are

Horror and Urban Films--Comedies are also very popular

(but many of them are gear towards an urban market)

 

I've shot for a production company that does straight-to-vide

They've got a deal with Maverick so anything they do is distributed

Usually the attitude of these videos is just to get it made

Quality sucks, story sucks, usually everything sucks cept the cover

But distributors don't care since the motto is teens will rent anything  :blink:

 

They buy the film for really low sometimes even under 50K

And make at least 4x that much (so it's good business)

Sometime it's not about making good films but making good money

Hell even Hollywood studios function on this priniciple (everyone's gotta eat)  :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow what a wake up call!

 

Thanks for the input guy's, your a great help.

 

 

How much money would you say a very amateur film maker like myself would need to make a 40 minute drama, about a boy's journey into insanity?

 

 

(movie not yet titled) (box cover)

[Joshua Rheaume]

Wow what a wake up call!

 

Thanks for the input guy's, your a great help.

How much money would you say a very amateur film maker like myself would need to make a 40 minute drama, about a boy's journey into insanity?

(movie not yet titled)      (box cover)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

sorry, here is the box cover.

[David Mullen ASC]

I hate to say it but unless you are making a program for a 1-hour TV slot (like Peter Jackson's 50-min. "Forgotten Silver" was), there are few things more useless than the 40-min. "short" film.

 

It's neither fish nor fowl -- too long to be a short and not long enough to be a feature. Most distributors require a feature to be at least 80 to 90 minutes. And shorts are not generally considered a money-maker.

[Joshua Rheaume]

I hate to say it but unless you are making a program for a 1-hour TV slot (like Peter Jackson's 50-min. "Forgotten Silver" was), there are few things more useless than the 40-min. "short" film. 

 

It's neither fish nor fowl -- too long to be a short and not long enough to be a feature.  Most distributors require a feature to be at least 80 to 90 minutes.  And shorts are not generally considered a money-maker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

okay,

 

It will take more work, but I can get this script up to 90 minutes.

 

I know the answer is very broad, but now it being a 90 minute script what kind of a budget would you say I'm looking at?

 

What kind of casting call can a 14 year old hold without looking like a joke?

 

Before I get to into this, does the idea even seem like it will make a good movie or should I work on a new script?

 

And last but not least I know as of now I seem very unprofessional, what are some good tips to make me look more like a pro?

[Chris Keth]

And last but not least I know as of now I seem very unprofessional, what are some good tips to make me look more like a pro?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Experience.

[David Mullen ASC]

I'm not sure a 14 year old should even be attempting to make a feature except as an exercise with their friends, not anything so expensive that it needs to be sold to make the costs back. Many films don't make their costs back.

 

The truth is that people make movies with the money they got, not the money they want. There have been features shot in consumer video that cost only $1000 ("The Last Broadcast") but not with things like real lighting equipment or cast or crew that needs to be rented, paid, fed, etc.

[David Cox]

Before I get to into this, does the idea even seem like it will make a good movie or should I work on a new script?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

... there was a movie a couple of years ago about a bunch of midgets chasing after some jewellery. That sounds like a crap idea for a film, but I gather "Lord of the Rings" was very well received :D

 

There's a lot more to a good movie than a single idea, so don't be put off if anyone doesn't like your main idea because it is impossible for them to know what is in your mind for the whole journey you are going to take your audience on.

 

Stick with it. This industry rewards only the determined or the connected ;)

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

I would recommend that you shoot a series of less than 15 minute shorts to learn what it takes to make a film. This also gives you the opportunity to be shown and hopefully critiqued in festivals. Don't be a festival junkie though, concentrate on making a technically solid piece and improving your craft.

[Sam Wells]

There have been features shot in consumer video that cost only $1000 ("The Last Broadcast") but not with things like real lighting equipment or cast or crew that needs to be rented, paid, fed, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey they used two of my C-stands !

 

Oh yeah I don't think I got a rental fee on them :ph34r:

 

Let's see, seven year overdue invoice, interest at 1.5 % per month, so much for under $1000 :D

 

-Sam

[Joshua Rheaume]

I'm not sure a 14 year old should even be attempting to make a feature except as an exercise with their friends, not anything so expensive that it needs to be sold to make the costs back.  Many films don't make their costs back.

 

The truth is that people make movies with the money they got, not the money they want.  There have been features shot in consumer video that cost only $1000 ("The Last Broadcast") but not with things like real lighting equipment or cast or crew that needs to be rented, paid, fed, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David,

 

your certainly not the first to tell me I'm to young to do this (that's why i resorted to this place.) and i can sympathize with people like you, but the absolute truth is if i don't get these ideas out of my head probably, i feel i seriously may become insane, and i know it sounds like a something right out of a grade A comedy script but as of now i can't be told what i can't do cause I'm not going to listen. I just need answers. i don't have time for road block's.

[Joshua Rheaume]

I would recommend that you shoot a series of less than 15 minute shorts to learn what it takes to make a film.  This also gives you the opportunity to be shown and hopefully critiqued in festivals.  Don't be a festival junkie though, concentrate on making a technically solid piece and improving your craft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lamar,

 

That's a really great idea. Thank you. I will give it a 15 minute shot!

Edited February 2, 2005 by joshua rheaume

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

Lamar,

 

That's a really great idea. Thank you. I will give it a 15 minute shot!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well 15 minutes is all you'll need to fail then. People here are trying to give you the benefit of their experience. What's wrong with making a short? What's wrong with honing your craft? So what if you have ideas you got to get out of your head. I've sat on ideas for years now. They're still as valuable as they were when I thought of them. I don't want to fu** them up by not giving them the best possible treatment so I'll wait until the time is right.

[Joshua Rheaume]

Well 15 minutes is all you'll need to fail then.  People here are trying to give you the benefit of their experience.  What's wrong with making a short?  What's wrong with honing your craft?  So what if you have ideas you got to get out of your head.  I've sat on ideas for years now.  They're still as valuable as they were when I thought of them.  I don't want to fu** them up by not giving them the best possible treatment so I'll wait until the time is right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said,

 

that makes me think twice.

 

 

 

Sorry about that david!

 

Oh i'm learning.

Edited February 2, 2005 by joshua rheaume

[Dominic Case]

i know it sounds like a something right out of a grade A comedy script but as of now i can't be told what i can't do cause I'm not going to listen. I just need answers. i don't have time for road block's.

TO be honest, Joshua, I thought your questions read like a B or C grade comedy script. I think some of us on this list have heard most of your questions before - but not all at the same time from one person. I must confess that I avoided responding for that reason. But I'll throw in a couple of comments as it seems you can't be stopped :unsure: (and many of the great filmmakers today were making films at 11 (though not features!) so you need to work fast to catch up!

 

sorry, here is the box cover.

possibly not the priority at this stage.

there are few things more useless than the 40-min. "short" film

In terms of marketing, yes. In terms of a learning process, sometimes it's an OK length: but start out shorter.

It will take more work, but I can get this script up to 90 minutes.

Absolutely the wrong approach. You should be working a script down, not up. The ideas need to keep coming, thick and fast. There are too many 2-hour features around that have enough ideas for a 30 minute TV show. Go and look at some of Charlie Kaufman's work. (Being John Malkovich, Adaptation, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind) to see what I mean for richness of ideas.

So, take your 40-minute idea (a boy's journey into insanity - I hope it's not autobigoraphical), and work it down to 20 minutes. See what you really need, and how you can sell an idea quickly and clearly. See what you can do without - things that don't carry the strory forward and don't let us learn more about the character. Then see what you can actually shoot.

How much money would you say a very amateur film maker like myself would need to make a 40 minute drama

That depends entirely on the script. In the professional world, scrip assessors work through a script scene by scene to answer just that question. in their context, it's not just about how many rolls of film or tape, it's about how many extras, what locations, what needs building, how long to set up and shoot, and so on. In a purely amateur production, you still need to work through every scene to figure out how you can shoot it.

 

And finally, you know how the credits roll for so long at the end of feature films? That's because they take a lot of people with a lot of specialised skills to come together to make them. You can make films with fewer people: but you will gain immeasurably (in your own understanding, your own sense of accomplishment, and in the final outcome) if you collaborate with a whole bunch of other people.

[Rik Andino]

Well you can always write the script and make it sometime down the line

Or you can sell the script and have someone else make it

 

Everyone has ideas but we don't always get it made

 

I got into film making when I was a little older than you (Jesus I sound so old)

To make my ideas into movies

And all I've been doing is making other people's ideas

And that happens to lots of us

 

Jesus maybe that should change

[Joshua Rheaume]

TO be honest, Joshua, I thought your questions read like a B or C grade comedy script. I think some of us on this list have heard most of your questions before - but not all at the same time from one person. I must confess that I avoided responding for that reason. But I'll throw in a couple of comments as it seems you can't be stopped :unsure: (and many of the great filmmakers today were making films at 11 (though not features!) so you need to work fast to catch up!

 

possibly not the priority at this stage.

In terms of marketing, yes. In terms of a learning process, sometimes it's an OK length: but start out shorter.

Absolutely the wrong approach. You should be working a script down, not up. The ideas need to keep coming, thick and fast. There are too many 2-hour features around that have enough ideas for a 30 minute TV show. Go and look at some of Charlie Kaufman's work. (Being John Malkovich, Adaptation, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind) to see what I mean for richness of ideas.

So, take your 40-minute idea (a boy's journey into insanity - I hope it's not autobigoraphical), and work it down to 20 minutes. See what you really need, and how you can sell an idea quickly and clearly. See what you can do without - things that don't carry the strory forward and don't let us learn more about the character. Then see what you can actually shoot.

That depends entirely on the script. In the professional world, scrip assessors work through a script scene by scene to answer just that question. in their context, it's not just about how many rolls of film or tape, it's about how many extras, what locations, what needs building, how long to set up and shoot, and so on. In a purely amateur production, you still need to work through every scene to figure out how you can shoot it. 

 

And finally, you know how the credits roll for so long at the end of feature films? That's because they take a lot of people with a lot of specialised skills to come together to make them. You can make films with fewer people: but you will gain immeasurably (in your own understanding, your own sense of accomplishment, and in the final outcome) if you collaborate with a whole bunch of other people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dominic,

 

This was just the boosting post I needed. (Thank you) as of now I have my parents to fall back on I don't have to pay for things such as rent, food etc. I can use that to my advantage, I have a source of income, and I can sell all kinds of things to make things work.

People are practically begging to give me money, in fact there are to many way's to make money that's my biggest problem I want to do everything always. I only

Have four more years to fall back on my parents before I leave this sh** hole and start a business (my life is planed out this site and all of you are one of the biggest parts of my planed out life, now what's my next lesson?) I apologize if I have sounded like a cocky full of himself jerk but the way I see it, the man selling nickels for a dime always makes the profit. It?s all an image.

[David Cox]

#3, how do amateur film makers get to work with the pro's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Joshua,

 

Something just occured to me, with reference to your quote above..

 

There are a number of very well respected names contributing to your thread. So maybe it is fair to say that you are already working with the pros?

 

Stick in there. We were all you a little while ago. Thats why you have so many responses.

 

Good Luck!