Car lighting - daytime

Mike Ford · February 9, 2005

We are shooting a student senior thesis film on super 16mm and have two scenes coming up that have to be shot with a car on a busy street. Several shots will be shot from the cars interior, daytime and early evening, with two actors and a little dialogue, but the others we are hoping to shoot from the exterior, camera mounted to the hood.

My main question would be what are the cheapest and most effective ways - positions of lights, best ways to power them - to light the actors in this small, moving, space and given the time of year, most likely a cloudy day. We have tossed around several ideas but none seem entirley worth the risk. Thanks!

Edited February 9, 2005 by Mike Ford

Laurent Andrieux · February 9, 2005

There also are daylight torchs (flash light) LTM makes 18 watts 12 volts ones that you can plug in the lighter plug. If you want more power, you can put a 125 W or 200 W one on battery

Lars.Erik · February 9, 2005

Hey Mike. It seems like you're talking about a moving car, correct?

Check out KinoFlo. They have a 12V kit set specially designed for your purpose.

http://www.kinoflo.com/site_map/12v_systms/001.html

In Norway they cost about 70$ for a one day rental. They come in 5600K. Check out different rental stores in your area.

If your shooting over several days you could always build one yourself. A complete set shouldn't cost you more than 40-45 USD. Done it a few times. Quite easy. Just buy a couple of 8w/12V fluorescent bulbs with the power supply for them. Just make sure the fittings aren't too big, or you'll have a tough time avoiding them in the shot. Put them into a loose wall socket, then from the back of this socket, use a 12V car male contact to put into the 12V power outlet of the car. Make sure you have enough electrical cord, you have to hide them in one of the sides of the car. You might have to solder to get them long enough. Make sure you put diffusion on them or they might come out too strong. A 1/2 or 1/1 should do the trick, depending on the placement of the lamps.

Make sure the bulbs are 5600K! Stores that sell lights for trailers, caravans, cabins should have them.

It's quite easy to place them. You could buy strong velcro and place them in the roof above and a little in front of the actors. Another place is in the front of the..what you call it...where the RPM and MPH are...and the other on the other side. Sorry...Norwegian not quite sure of the word you use.

You're shooting for film. I shoot on HD. So if there's anybody out there who knows of any problems with such home made lamps when shooting on 16mm, please let him know. Flickers etc.

Edited February 9, 2005 by Lars.Erik

Phil Rhodes · February 9, 2005

Hi,

> where the RPM and MPH are

Dashboard.

Or instrument panel.

Phil

John Ealer · February 9, 2005

Since it's a student project I'll assume you don't have a process trailer with all the fixin's, so...

First, I'll make the necessary and obligatory disclaimer that it's dangerous to have an actor driving a car that's been rigged with cameras and lights unless you have the appropriate police traffic control. On what appeared to be a very deserted road I once saw the talent very nearly kill herself and her co-star by turning into the one car that happened to come by over a period of half an hour.

That said:

Mini-flos work great at night, while the home-made ones sound great, the Kino's have a dimmable ballast which can really help you dial in the intensity. They won't do much good during the day, though.

If you're doing the traditional hostess-tray OTS shots in addition to the hood mount two shot, here's one scenario that may be of interest:

For the hood mount two shot, use ND SE grads at the top and bottom of frame to take take down the brightness of the areas outside the car. (In addition to the POLA you'll probably want to have standing by to control glare on the windshield.) That way you avoid having to use any lights for the hood mount shot. If there's someone in the backseat, you may want to have some battery-powered kinos (not just mini-flos, you'll need more punch) rigged in the backseat to bring up the passengers there.

For the side mount shot, while it's tempting to try and gel all the windows, be careful or you'll often end up in a lighting tautology. Since the windows are your sources, the more you gel them down, the less light you have inside; you won't reduce contrast between inside and outside, you've just make it darker overall. The way to avoid this is to keep the side shots tight enough that you don't see the windshield, that way the windshield can remain your "key" source and you can ND down the door windows.

These options give you a minimum of rigging will make it simpler and safer for your talent, while still yielding good results.

J

Bob Hayes · February 10, 2005

I?ve been pretty lucky with back lighting the back ground. If the area you are looking at is in shadows it makes the balance easier.

Mike Ford · February 21, 2005

Thanks to everyone for the help. We obtained a Kinoflow with the car kit so that helps a bunch and we have scrapped the idea of shooting exteriors of the car with the exception of wide shots from afar...its probably better off i think. thanks again!

Michael Nash · February 22, 2005

Car Kinos in the daytime amount to pi$$ing in the wind, I'm afraid. If you have to balance to a sunlit exterior you won't even be able to tell they're turned on!

Kevin Zanit · February 23, 2005

The 12" tubes are nice if you paper tape them over the windshield by the visor, less crap obstructing their through (like the steering wheel and actor's hands).

The Kinos in the day can work some. If it is a completely sunlit shot, with no shadows at all, then yes, it is similar to "pissing in the wind" (as Mr. Nash so eloquently put it :D ).

But, the kinos can help as a fill when the car goes in shadow. You could also bounce a 400w. Joker off some show card for some fill.

Remember these few things:

It is okay for your background to be a little over, this is natural.

It is okay for you talent to be a little under. They are in a car, this is natural.

So, the moral of the story is it is okay to average a little more than you may normally. Contrast in a scene like this, with a budget like yours is inevitable, and okay.

You can also try to play with mirrors in the backseat to have an edge sweep through every now and then just to add some heat and movement to the shot every now and then.

Kevin Zanit

Jayson Crothers · February 23, 2005

Any kind of rigging to a car, especially when you're not using a tow rig, should be done by someone with experience - nothing is more terrifying than seeing your camera go off a hostess tray or having a hood mount go loose while you're driving along - a friend of mine lost a camera this way just a few months ago - her 2nd unit guy rigged a camera on a hood mount for a few "simple" shots and didn't do it right..............kiss one A-Minima goodbye.

And I'll be the nagging mother - PLEASE be careful if you plan to have the talent drive and act at the same time - you should find a deserted area you can control and have PA's at the start of the run and at the end of the run so they can notify someone in the car (all with walkies of course) if there's another vehicle coming.

Safety first!

Michael Morlan · March 4, 2005

Some good ideas from the gallery. Consider this simple cheat:

Shoot in a convertable with the top down. ;-)

Worked like a charm on a cloudy day in a recent low-budget shoot. We hood-mounted the camera, added a polarizer to kill the glare off the window and went for a drive on a deserted street.

Remember that your pola filter can only kill glare over part of the curved windshield since your incident angle changes quite a bit at the hood-top location.

Michael

Edited March 4, 2005 by mmorlan62

Laurent Andrieux · March 4, 2005

Remember that your pola filter can only kill glare over part of the curved windshield since your incident angle changes quite a bit at the hood-top location.

Right and also the zone you will clear (usually the front of the actor's face) changes according to the sun position, so that you have to check often the pola setting if you turn streets...