Jump to content

How Can B Movies Exist?


Peter Ellner

Recommended Posts

I think about 300 bucks to walk around for a week Phil as a buyer/attendee.

 

If you want a room probably 5K all in.

 

But there are no restrictions, anyone with money can show up and sell and buy films. It's not a closed club by any means.

 

All here:

 

http://www.americanfilmmarket.com/

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Premium Member

Another way to look at it, a low budget hit returns a lot more per dollar risked than a big budget hit. Is it better to roll the dice once with $50 mil on the line, or ten times for $5 mil each? Or 100 times at $500K?

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another way to look at it, a low budget hit returns a lot more per dollar risked than a big budget hit. Is it better to roll the dice once with $50 mil on the line, or ten times for $5 mil each? Or 100 times at $500K?

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

Oren Peli turned 13K into 100 million plus. Wow!! :blink:

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are "saddened by the existence of B movies"?

Well, I hate to say it, but yes, you do come off as being pretentious.

But more than that, you illuminate (to this crowd, anyway) that you not only know little or nothing about making films, but that you are possibly destined to never make a film at all.

We have all met countless film students who are committed to never making anything but masterpieces.

 

You guys live inside the myth that you are special, and that the film industry are just waiting to hear your pitch or read your script, then they will no doubt hand you giant big bags full of cash to make your masterpiece.

 

My advice? Make a film. ANY film. You will be humbled.

As someone who has made a "B-film" myself, NOT intentionally, I can tell you that once you actually make a film, you will discover that feeling familiar to all of us on this board who have made actual films (not just discussed them in class with some instructor who probably hasn't made actual films either) that the entire universe is conspiring to keep you from getting your film made.

The problem with movies, is that ANY ONE THING can turn your masterpiece into a B Movie.

Bad acting, not enough money (to hire skilled people, build good sets & design, etc.), bad or even just a slightly problematic script, bad weather, lazy crew members...

The list is endless, and these don't include the most obvious one - you will be a first time director, and it's almost inevitable that you will make crap your first time out.

Literally every top director, writer, etc. has made what you consider to be crap.

 

All you have now, is good intentions and a overabundance of false confidence.

That's not a good combination.

 

Matt Pacini

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

You are "saddened by the existence of B movies"?

Well, I hate to say it, but yes, you do come off as being pretentious.

But more than that, you illuminate (to this crowd, anyway) that you not only know little or nothing about making films, but that you are possibly destined to never make a film at all.

We have all met countless film students who are committed to never making anything but masterpieces.

 

You guys live inside the myth that you are special, and that the film industry are just waiting to hear your pitch or read your script, then they will no doubt hand you giant big bags full of cash to make your masterpiece.

 

My advice? Make a film. ANY film. You will be humbled.

As someone who has made a "B-film" myself, NOT intentionally, I can tell you that once you actually make a film, you will discover that feeling familiar to all of us on this board who have made actual films (not just discussed them in class with some instructor who probably hasn't made actual films either) that the entire universe is conspiring to keep you from getting your film made.

The problem with movies, is that ANY ONE THING can turn your masterpiece into a B Movie.

Bad acting, not enough money (to hire skilled people, build good sets & design, etc.), bad or even just a slightly problematic script, bad weather, lazy crew members...

The list is endless, and these don't include the most obvious one - you will be a first time director, and it's almost inevitable that you will make crap your first time out.

Literally every top director, writer, etc. has made what you consider to be crap.

 

All you have now, is good intentions and a overabundance of false confidence.

That's not a good combination.

 

Matt Pacini

 

Amen!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are "saddened by the existence of B movies"?

Well, I hate to say it, but yes, you do come off as being pretentious.

But more than that, you illuminate (to this crowd, anyway) that you not only know little or nothing about making films, but that you are possibly destined to never make a film at all.

We have all met countless film students who are committed to never making anything but masterpieces.

 

You guys live inside the myth that you are special, and that the film industry are just waiting to hear your pitch or read your script, then they will no doubt hand you giant big bags full of cash to make your masterpiece.

 

My advice? Make a film. ANY film. You will be humbled.

As someone who has made a "B-film" myself, NOT intentionally, I can tell you that once you actually make a film, you will discover that feeling familiar to all of us on this board who have made actual films (not just discussed them in class with some instructor who probably hasn't made actual films either) that the entire universe is conspiring to keep you from getting your film made.

The problem with movies, is that ANY ONE THING can turn your masterpiece into a B Movie.

Bad acting, not enough money (to hire skilled people, build good sets & design, etc.), bad or even just a slightly problematic script, bad weather, lazy crew members...

The list is endless, and these don't include the most obvious one - you will be a first time director, and it's almost inevitable that you will make crap your first time out.

Literally every top director, writer, etc. has made what you consider to be crap.

 

All you have now, is good intentions and a overabundance of false confidence.

That's not a good combination.

 

Matt Pacini

 

 

This and I love B movies they are often allowed to straddle that political correct line a lot closer(a lot of times crossing it) than A pictures. I shot a B movie(Blood Junkie available at Troma.com(shameless plug)) and have shot commercials, been on A shows and the on set experience and general camraderie and fun was much more evident on the B movie.'

 

Also you can be smart enough as a writer/director to take advantage of the purported flaws of a B movie filmmaking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

This and I love B movies they are often allowed to straddle that political correct line a lot closer(a lot of times crossing it) than A pictures.

..you can be smart enough as a writer/director to take advantage of the purported flaws of a B movie filmmaking.

 

Sam Fuller was a great example of that. On the surface a film like Shock Corridor screams B movie - melodramatic, limited sets, average actors - yet he managed to sneak in some searing social critique and produce a truly subversive piece of art.

 

His war films were similarly deviant - despite the appearance of a conventional B grade battlefield movie they often slyly condemned bigotry, racism and the collateral curruption of innocence, making them essentially anti-war (or at least anti the usual propaganda a government uses to convince its populace to fight one).

 

It's likely an A movie at the time couldn't have got away with stuff like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually know exactly what the O.P. is talking about, and I do actually feel similarly.

 

It's the one where you think, "this looks okay, maybe I'll hire it out," then you're about twenty minutes in and as an enthusiast but not an actual film maker, even you are able to point out numerous cringe worthy pieces of dialogue, bad acting, terrible editing and directing and you just wonder how the script got through to be made.

 

The thing with watching primarily A-grade movies is that I find it very easy to spot the B's and just avoid them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Nicholas, maybe you should read Alexander Pope's 18th century essay, "The Critic."

 

Indeed, the critics have forgotten that they are the lesser brother of the artist and have attempted to exalt themselves above those whom make them important to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Indeed, the critics have forgotten that they are the lesser brother of the artist and have attempted to exalt themselves above those whom make them important to begin with.

 

That is sometimes true, but criticism can also be an artform in itself. A particularly insightful critique can be more valuable than a thousand shallow plaudits to an artist who wants to grow.

 

But criticism has its place - you don't critique a child's drawing, or a love poem from your girlfriend. And it needs to come from an informed perspective. We judge things differently depending on the intent behind them and our expectations of that intent, so if it's a big dumb action movie we judge it on how entertaining it was, if it's a low budget zombie flick by a first timer we might judge it by how inventively the genre has been tackled.

 

But if it's a high brow art-house film you wouldn't criticise it for not having enough car chases. Which is sort of the attitude of the original poster (only in reverse). As many have pointed out, B movies have their place (for a number of reasons), and until you've tried to make a film yourself or at least have an understanding of the enormous challenges involved, criticising them for existing is a form of ignorance.

 

I get annoyed when a film pretends to be something it's not, but that's probably more often the fault of the cover art or marketing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand where the original poster is coming from. Perhaps he just framed his argument poorly. No doubt that I have often wondered, "Don't the people who put up the money for this POS want to make a good film?" It often comes down to scripting that is so piss poor, it boggles the mind.

 

There are countless damn good writers who'd give their left n** to write a script for a low budget production, just to prove their worth. Heck, I did it once (a full on, top to bottom rewrite for a friend), practically for free! That was four days on non-stop writing and maybe three hours of sleep a night. I was paid per day and my final fee covered just one month of bills.

 

The director was grateful I had fixed "a complete turd" of a script and the producer and line producer were thankful not to be working on "absolute poop." I was glad to finally have my name on something that was going to get made.

 

Of course, then the head of the little company came in, threw my script out and had his best friend rewrite it. The result was a disaster. Everyone hated it, but he was the guy with the money and so got what he wanted. Tony Todd starred and it barely went direct to DVD at Blockbuster. It's unwatchably bad.

 

Perhaps I just answered my own question. THAT is how this happens. THAT is how these bad films get made.

 

Not all the time, of course. It can't be. There must be other reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Guest Gabriela Castanon

And then there are the big-budget B-movies that are disguised as blockbusters!:)The kind of movies that are fun to watch but that you forget as soon as you leave the cinema.Real bubblegum for your brain, like most Jennifer Aniston or Cameron Diaz movies.Bigger stories with bigger budgets and bigger stars doesn't always mean better movies!

 

Low budget doesn't always mean bad quality. People who are shooting on a budget should check out an Israeli movie called "The Band's Visit".What an incredible, beautiful, moving film.It's simply unforgettable!It seems like the producers forgot entirely about the fact that they had a tiny budget or how many people are going to watch their movie.They chose a small but immensely powerful story, which allowed them to develop their characters and the plot beautifully.

 

Regards,

 

Andrea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Gabriela Castanon

And then there are the big-budget B-movies that are disguised as blockbusters!:)The kind of movies that are fun to watch but that you forget as soon as you leave the cinema.Real bubblegum for your brain, like most Jennifer Aniston or Cameron Diaz movies.Bigger stories with bigger budgets and bigger stars doesn't always mean better movies!

 

Low budget doesn't always mean bad quality. People who are shooting on a budget should check out an Israeli movie called "The Band's Visit".What an incredible, beautiful, moving film.It's simply unforgettable!It seems like the producers forgot entirely about the fact that they had a tiny budget or how many people are going to watch their movie.They chose a small but immensely powerful story, which allowed them to develop their characters and the plot beautifully.

 

Regards,

 

Andrea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Gabriela Castanon

Low budget doesn't always necessarily mean bad quality, and a small budget shouldn't deter filmmakers from making good movies.Take the Israeli movie "The Band's Visit", for instance. It was shot on a low budget by a first-time director, and has received a lot of critical acclaim.Inexperienced filmmakers should look at movies such as this as an example of how to make the most of a low budget.

It is based on a true story, and you can tell that the scriptwriters did a lot of research, but they kept the story small.This allowed the producers and directors to focus on developing a strong script and solid characters, and still stick to their budget.In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is not the script that tells the story, it is the characters.What they created is a cinematic masterpiece full of nuances. It is a subtle movie, but the story is immensely powerful, and the performances are breathtaking.

Good movies are not always about having the biggest budgets, with the biggest scripts and the biggest stars. Simplicity is beauty, and "The Band's Visit" is the perfect example of this.

 

Regards,

 

Andrea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Low budget doesn't always necessarily mean bad quality, and a small budget shouldn't deter filmmakers from making good movies.

 

Indeed -- I just chanced to catch another example on PBS late at night, a famous and controversial old movie from 1960, "Never on Sunday". It turns out to be a sweet little movie, but the most surprising thing was that it could have been done on a Roger Corman budget.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Low budget=possible bigger return on investment

some people don't know any better

many people (or enough people) enjoy and buy them to make them profitable

they used to be stipulated as part of matinees in the old days to keep people in the theaters (you'd have your big movie then a few B movies, normally shorter using leftovers)

they are a proving/training ground for new talent

they can be quite inspirational inasmuch as learning what not to do as what to do

they can be enjoyable as well because they are so bad (comically so, such as films like Troll 2, where it's funny how badly done it is and that gives enjoyment).

it's not hard to get into film if you have money or connections

most film people didn't go to film school i'd wager-- and film school will not teach you how to make a good movie.

a lot of people are doing it for the money.. they're often referred to as producers.

often the best intentioned films go awry, especially because in the end it's the producers who often have the power-- not the director, so the intentions of the director of DP is very often overshadowed by a producer looking for an ROI.

 

 

You must must must remember that it's the film INDUSTRY. While we can make artful PRODUCT it is still in the end a product designed to be sold. It needs to make a profit for the studio so they can stay in business, and truth be told I'd bet that a "B" movie can make better money than most artful films. Also, what is a good or bad film? Is there a hard/fast definition to that or is it a matter of personal taste? Granted there are cultural associations and expectations of what a film should/could be, but at the same time, it's all about whether or not the person watching the movie likes it.And lastly they can exist because people make mistakes.. and often you don't realize it until you're already done shooting... so what do you do? Show nothing and take a loss, or polish the turd as much as you can and put it out there to make some money back to make another film?

 

Also, what is people really enjoy making bad movies? some folk are sadistic.. hell you should see my x girlfriends....

Pretty much. The other part is that not everyone wants to see a good movie. So you make what they want to see to earn the bucks to pay for your next project. If you can sync up your talent with the audience's personal taste, then you're golden. Otherwise you're just pumping out artsy crap that may win awards, but doesn't earn a buck.

 

I think I may have worked on one B-movie my entire life. Said shoot involved firing off weapons across the street from San Francisco's police HQ on a Sunday afternoon in a warehouse like structure... but that's another story :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there's a number of factors that play into their existence. For one, there's a niche audience for genre b-movies. For example, Troll 2 is widely viewed as the worst horror movie of all time. And it's absolutely terrible--and yet oddly satisfying. So for someone who really likes action movies, or horror, or whatever it maybe, there's always something satisfying to see in a movie that maybe isn't up to the stardards of so called "high art". Sadly, most of the world doesn't care in the least who Ingmar Bergman is. The real mystery is how Andrey tarkovsky ever got money to make a movie haha (I love him by the way, but he was a bomb at the box office). Along those lines, I don't think most of America for example really cares about the same kind of production values that you or me or anyone else on this forum expects from a feature film experience. Currently I'm a Peace Corps volunteer in Nicaragua, and just speaking to the situation here, there's cable television. And you want to know what's "popular"? Hilary Duff movies, Vin Diesel flicks, lots of soap operas... I mean, the standard and artistic taste of a filmmaker or aspiring filmmaker is understandably going to be much different from that of the general public.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some amazing low low budget movies that come to mind are Pi, Cube and of course, The Following. Those films had very low budgets, but damn fine scripts and people in front of and behind the camera who wanted to make great films. That's the key. It is so so hard to do. i know plenty of guys (and gals) who would be willing to work for damn near free to make a great film (and we have some good scripts we can shoot) but without the hundred or so grand to pay for the actual production costs...

 

:(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great B movies : Pushing up daisys / Any wrestling film with El Santo and Blue Demon / shock corridor / The fly (original) Ereaser Head / Re-Animator (classic) / Night of the living dead / The Invisible Man 1933 / Any 8mm film by the Ckucher bothers from the Bronx. The list of great director and DPs that came from the B school of filmaking is amazing. Any one that managed to create and finish a film deserve admiration and a chance you might learn something from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great B movies : Pushing up daisys / Any wrestling film with El Santo and Blue Demon / shock corridor / The fly (original) Ereaser Head / Re-Animator (classic) / Night of the living dead / The Invisible Man 1933 / Any 8mm film by the Ckucher bothers from the Bronx. The list of great director and DPs that came from the B school of filmaking is amazing. Any one that managed to create and finish a film deserve admiration and a chance you might learn something from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matt you can see a trailer here, sorry thats all I got.

Its an Urban Drama shot with then hot XL2. I learnd in this film what 4a years of film forgot to teach me. To Direct is the easy fun part, the works comes when you have to babysit actors resolve disputes in the dep. All while you direct rewrite and shoot in my case. It was a great learning experience and there are some prety good secuences in it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Forum Sponsors

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Film Gears

CINELEASE

BOKEH RENTALS

CineLab

Cinematography Books and Gear



×
×
  • Create New...