FUJI ETERNA 500

[Thomas Cousin]

hello,

it seems not too much people already use the fuji eterna 500 stock for the moment.

i tried to find some infos here and there. not much.

maybe some of you shot it or saw some tests ?

For a shoot in a few weeks, i think about using this stock for their speed and the inherent particularities of fujifilm stocks. it will be shot on super16 and blown up.

i maybe plan (still preparing and thinking intensively at the moment) to use the 2 stocks : the "old" 8672 fuji 500 and ,so, this new eterna. to use in separate scenes in differente times and places.

my goal is to show some emotionnal différences and evolution in the story playing with the texture of the image mainly, and lighting of course. but i want to try this with making grain structure different according to the scenes. i want to create a real difference.

maybe by exagerate the grain on 8672 by pushing it, and on the other way pulling the eterna.

well, you know , playing a lot with these two stocks to achieved what i want.

I need to keep fast stocks to minimize our lighting. But if i want to over expose a little and pull process the eterna, i am going to rate it maybe around 200asa or 125asa (pull by 1 stop then overexpose by 1).

The experience seems interesting as i personnaly never played with pull processing. but i would like to know if it's worth it with this stock.

eterna seems fine grain for a 500 asa stock. i would like to minimize it much more by these process. but then what is going to happen to the contrast and the colors ?

i can't shoot tests, unfortunately, that's why i ask.

 

thanks

 

thomas

[Malinko]

I never shot Fuji, prefering to use Kodak. However some film-makers like to evoke diffrent moods inasmuch as utilizing diffrent stocks. Still some take a more wonton approach and use one single stock throughout the whole movie or sometimes careers!

 

I am consolidating a deffinitive list of both esoteric and common processing techniqes. I think I have most methods right here;

 

Skip Bleach/Bleach Bypass

 

Flashing

 

Push, Pull

 

Baking the film or scratching (a more "esoteric" technique)

 

Force Development

 

Thats about it. There should be more though. Im gonna have to check up on this.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Has it been released yet?

[Thomas Cousin]

Has it been released yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hello

 

Yes, it is.

Just saw a presentation today here in Paris for this stock. and some feature films in 35mm are already in production, as they said. and the super16 version of eterna is just beginnig to be used.

 

thomas

[Dominik Muench]

whats so new about this eterna stock ? is it the equivalent to the kodak tgrain stocks ?

[Adam Frisch FSF]

No, Fuji has had T-grain technology as long as, if not before, Kodak. It's their equivalent or answer to Kodak's Vision 2 range. Kodak has kinda pulled up ahead since they introduced that range. As a frequent Fuji shooter, I welcome the new baby into the family - hopefully I get to test or try it soon. Don't be surprised if Fuji thurn their whole range into Eterna soon, is my guess.

[Dominik Muench]

oh ok, so hows it grain structure wise ? i love the fuji colors, but the grainyness of their stocks gave me the sh... from what ive shot so far. a stock that has the fujiy colors and the kodak vision two grain structure, would be my dream :)

[John Pytlak RIP]

No, Fuji has had T-grain technology as long as, if not before, Kodak. It's their equivalent or answer to Kodak's Vision 2 range. Kodak has kinda pulled up ahead since they introduced that range. As a frequent Fuji shooter, I welcome the new baby into the family - hopefully I get to test or try it soon. Don't be surprised if Fuji thurn their whole range into Eterna soon, is my guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kodak invented "T-Grains". The first motion-picture film using them was EASTMAN Color High Speed Negative Film 7292 in 1986. I recall Fuji's F-Series that tried to copy the Kodak technology didn't come on the market until several years later.

 

Kodak was also the first to use DIR and DIAR couplers and 2-Electron Sensitization in motion-picture films.

 

Kodak invented the concept of colored coupler masking with Kodacolor and the first EASTMAN Color negative films.

 

These Kodak inventions led to the superb image stucture and color reproduction we enjoy today in the Kodak VISION2 films.

 

Here is the Chronology of Kodak motion-picture films, beginning in 1889:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...=0.1.4.28&lc=en

[John Pytlak RIP]

oh ok, so hows it grain structure wise ? i love the fuji colors, but the grainyness of their stocks gave me the sh... from what ive shot so far. a stock that has the fujiy colors and the kodak vision two grain structure, would be my dream :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you tried Kodak VISION2 Expression 500T Color Negative Film 5229/7229?

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products....4.4.4.10&lc=en

[David Mullen ASC]

Fuji introduced the first over-100 ASA stock in 1981, a year before Kodak, but Kodak invented "T-grains" in the mid 1980's, although I heard that Agfa actually was the first to create something like tabular grains for their XT-320 stock. But I can't be sure on that one. There were a number of people who preferred the grain of Agfa XT-320 over Kodak 5294, which is why Agfa was used for the climax of "Roger Rabbit" in the large warehouse set, which was otherwise mostly shot on medium-speed Kodak 5247. But then Kodak came out with 5295 and then 5296.

 

Fuji followed Kodak's T-Grains with their own design.

 

I also heard a rumor that Kodak and Fuji collaborated on the Advantix still camera format along with improved grain structure technology for their stocks to make that format work, which Kodak then implemented into their original Vision line of motion picture stocks, a year before Fuji did the same with their Super-F series.

[Dominik Muench]

haha John is always on the ball ;) yes i shot so far around 18 rolls on kodak vision 2 500t, havent tried the new daylight stock yet though.

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

What was the Fuji stock Izzie Mankofsky used for the period scenes in "Somewhere in Time?"

[John Pytlak RIP]

I also heard a rumor that Kodak and Fuji collaborated on the Advantix still camera format along with improved grain structure technology for their stocks to make that format work, which Kodak then implemented into their original Vision line of motion picture stocks, a year before Fuji did the same with their Super-F series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Advantix still film FORMAT was a cooperative effort among manufacturers of both film and hardware. But AFAIK, the film formulation was NOT a shared effort. Kodak T-Grain films were on the market years before Advantix.

[David Mullen ASC]

"Somewhere in Time" predated the introduction of high-speed film, so it was shot on a combination of Kodak 5247 for the modern sequences and 100 ASA Fuji with occasional diffusion (nets, fog filters) for the past.

 

By coincidence, I own a copy of the 1980 edition of the ASC Manual (I got it used as a film student) and it lists the only Fuji color negative stock at the time as 8517 (100 ASA tungsten.)

 

There was also an article on the movie in the July 1980 issue of AC Magazine.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

I recall Andrew Laszlo, ASC telling us at the filmschool that when he shot First Blood all the scenes where Rambo is underground with the torch was shot on the brand new Fuji 250T stock which had just come out. Available light only, except when he's by the fire which was slightly augmented. I think that was one of the earliest uses of a high speed color negative stock. Kodak and Agfa came out with high speed soon after, I believe.

 

But hats off to Kodak for the vision 2 series. I shot 5229 recently, the low con 500T, and it was very, very crisp.

Edited March 17, 2005 by AdamFrisch

[John Holland]

Reply to the kodak man as far as i remember Agfa during WW2 developed what now call Eastman Colour, after the war all tech specs were taken back to the USA and given to Eastman Kodak who then developed the technology and in the early fifties wow Eastman Colour arrived, during the mid 80s Agfa had a wonderful stock 320XT used by lots of us who hated Kodaks then range of terrible high speed emulsions , but due to Kodaks overpowering money and P.R Agfa had to give up suprise suprise Kodak then introduced there own low contrast stock 320 asa . Please everyone try using Fuji range . By the way i have no connections with any producers of motion picture products. John Holland

[John Pytlak RIP]

Reply to the kodak man as far as i remember Agfa during WW2 developed what now call Eastman Colour, after the war all tech specs were taken back to the USA and given to Eastman Kodak who then developed the technology and in the early fifties wow Eastman Colour arrived

 

John Holland

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

NOT true! :angry:

 

The WWII German Agfa color stocks used totally different technology than EASTMAN Color, especially the types of dye-forming couplers (Fischer couplers) and the lack of any color masking (WWII Agfa was very desaturated). For many years, Agfa films used different processing chemistry as well.

 

The Kodak KODACOLOR technology that formed the basis for the EASTMAN Color Motion Picture system was introduced in 1942, well before the end of the war, so it is unlikely it was based on any proprietary Agfa technology or the "spoils of war":

 

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/histor...ml?pq-path=2700

 

Kodak KODACHROME was introduced even earlier, in 1935.

 

You may be thinking of GAF (General Analine and Film), who grew out of the US holdings of Agfa-Ansco after the war, and was an early Kodak competitor, especially for color slide film.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

John, while you're on the subject - would it be possible to do an ECN-2 negative film that had the same characteristics as the earliest color stocks like the Agfa and the 5254 and such?

 

Is this something that has been considered as niche "classic" line diversification at all? I'd love to shoot on a stock that looked like WWII color - that look is gorgeous. And I'm sure there would be a market for it, albeit limited (much like B/W film today).

Edited March 18, 2005 by AdamFrisch

[David Mullen ASC]

Is this something that has been considered as niche "classic" line diversification at all? I'd love to shoot on a stock that looked like WWII color - that look is gorgeous. And I'm sure there would be a market for it, albeit limited (much like B/W film today).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

With the age of digital intermediate upon us, I suspect we'll see a decrease in the number of specialty-look stocks, not an increase.

 

A few months ago I saw the DVD of the German WW2 version of "Munchhausen", shot on the first Agfa color negative. Interesting look, almost bordering on the look of 2-strip Technicolor with a heavy cyan bias and pastel, peachy but grainy skintones. But pretty. But I find almost all early color processes to have a certain beauty, being inaccurate for the most part.

 

As for 5254, actually the modern Vision-2 line is closest to that look than any recent film emulsion series, except in terms of sharpness (modern films are sharper) -- but it's not hard to find a way to soften an image, like by using older lenses. 5218 has a certain 5254 look, or maybe 5229 if you feel that 5254 was softer in contrast and color. Perhaps the only other difference is that older stocks seemed to oversaturate the blues more quickly than modern stocks, but that impression may also be fueled by the fact that older negatives have aged with some fading in the yellow dye layer, creating somewhat cold shadows and blacks when color-corrected for neutral fleshtones. We've all seen old movies where silver-haired actors seem to have blue hair. Anyway, 5254 may be too subtle a look for Kodak to emulate and advertize as a "look".

 

I would be curious to see a color negative that had the look of 3-strip Technicolor photography or the look of classic Kodachrome reversal.

 

I also miss the look of Agfa XT-320, which was distinct... low-contrast in the highlights with brownish fleshtones but cold shadows. Great for period films.

[Christian Appelt]

A few months ago I saw the DVD of the German WW2 version of "Munchhausen", shot on the first Agfa color negative.  Interesting look, almost bordering on the look of 2-strip Technicolor with a heavy cyan bias and pastel, peachy but grainy skintones.  But pretty.

 

David, which DVD edition did you see? Some years ago, I saw MÜNCHHAUSEN in a print struck from the Agfacolor camera negative in the 1980s (on Agfa color positive, compensating with a color masking filter in the printer, IIRC), and I don't remember the skin looking more grainy than other colors. In fact, this seemed to me the best looking early Agfacolor film, except maybe GROSSE FREIHEIT NR. 7 made the same year.

[David Mullen ASC]

David, which DVD edition did you see? Some years ago, I saw MÜNCHHAUSEN in a print struck from the Agfacolor camera negative in the 1980s (on Agfa color positive, compensating with a color masking filter in the printer, IIRC), and I don't remember the skin looking more grainy than other colors. In fact, this seemed to me the best looking early Agfacolor film, except maybe GROSSE FREIHEIT NR. 7 made the same year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't mean just the skintones were grainy, but that there was an overall patina of grain like all early Eastmancolor films have too. Overall, I thought it looked pretty good.