Rodrigo Prieto Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I am planning to shoot part of a film in Super 16 for the grain. I am not very familiar with the lenses available, and would like to hear recommendations based on other Cinematographer's experience. I want sharpness and good contrast, to match 35mm Ultraprimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Skala Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Rodrigo, I can't really help you but I am intrigued by your post. Are you the same person that shot AMORES PERROS, 21 GRAMS, etc.? I really admire the look of those films. I have used Ziess primes with that ugly triangle aperture and some old Canon primes but I have not shot on 35mm yet so I wouldn't be able to compare. I would stay away from that triangle aperture unless you think its aesthetically pleasing. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Prieto Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 Rodrigo, I can't really help you but I am intrigued by your post. Are you the same person that shot AMORES PERROS, 21 GRAMS, etc.? I really admire the look of those films. I have used Ziess primes with that ugly triangle aperture and some old Canon primes but I have not shot on 35mm yet so I wouldn't be able to compare. I would stay away from that triangle aperture unless you think its aesthetically pleasing. Matt <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Matt, Yes, I shot those films. I don't need really to match the Ultra Primes, but I do want good sharp lenses. I am concerned about the loss of definition of the Super 16 blown up to 35, intercut with other parts of the film that will be 35mm. I'm thinking of using the Super 16 for the grain structure only. The triangle aperture you describe on the Zeiss is noticeable on flares, or why do you say "ugly"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 What's wrong with just using the Ultras on a 16mm camera? Do you need to go wider than 10mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Zeiss Ultras look great in super16. Nothing else has this look. It took me quite a bit of talking with the producer to justify the extra cost but I guess this would not be a problem for you if they are already on set for the 35mm footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Cooke has also added a 9.5 and 12mm to the S4 line. I love the Cookes, very sharp and they have great contrast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Schmidt Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Shooting with 35mm lenses for S16mm would be the most sensible thing to test at this point as J. Lamar King and Dan have already said. The only thing I have run into to be aware of is to make sure the end of the 35mm lens doesn't set in the mount to deep and ruin the shutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Nash Posted March 18, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2005 To round out the extreme wide end of a set of primes, I've been pleased with the Elite 7mm and 4.5 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewbuchanan Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I just got some tests with the Elite 7mm back, and I agree it is indeed a very sweet lens. Surprisingly clean image all the way to the edge of the frame and amazingly low distortion for how wide the lens is. I can't wait to shoot something besides a test with it. I also would nominate the Optar Illumina lenses, there is a very nice set in 8.5mm, 9mm, 12mm, 12mm, 25mm, 50mm and they are as sharp and contrasty as anything I have ever used in Super 16. If you need something that is a lot more descreet (smaller and lighter) than a S4, I might look at Optars. Rodrigo, great work on AMORES PERROS, I look forward to seeing more of your films... especially if they are in S16! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ype Poortinga Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I heard from someone that he had some troubles with the 10mm ultra prima on a arri sr3, but I don't know anymore what the exact issue was? Maybe someone else here who has worked with that combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted March 18, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 18, 2005 Since you are intercutting the "grainy look" scenes with 35mm anyway, you may want to consider methods of getting more grain on 35mm, without needed have a separate 16mm camera kit, or need to blow up Super-16. Assuming you want more or less the same contrast and color as the "normal" scenes, some things to try: 1. Use a fast, lower contrast film like Kodak VISION 320T Color Negative Film 5277. The old discontinued 5284 or 5263 could also work if you can find some. Underexpose by a stop, then Push-1 process. Should give you more or less "normal" contrast and color, but some additional grain. 2. If you can get it, use some older Kodak VISION 800T Color Negative Film 5289. After a few years of exposure to natural radiation and age, the graininess may have built up to the level you want. 3. Pull process ECN-2 with skip bleach will add some grittiness, but may be too big a change for tone scale and color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Skala Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Re: The triangle aperture Maybe "ugly" was the wrong word. I just don't like the triangle in the flares. It looks to mechanical or something. I prefer them to be rounder which is what I used the old Canon primes for (I got them for free). I just finished a short film, I integrated flares a lot into the look of the film. Maybe its just because I am used to seeing the round aperature in flares and when the triangle popped up for the first time, it was a shock. I really enjoyed the article on ALEXANDER in AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER. You did a lot of innovative things. What is a revolution lens? It sounded like something I may need to use for a shot I have in mind for a future project. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Prieto Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 I just got some tests with the Elite 7mm back, and I agree it is indeed a very sweet lens. Surprisingly clean image all the way to the edge of the frame and amazingly low distortion for how wide the lens is. I can't wait to shoot something besides a test with it. I also would nominate the Optar Illumina lenses, there is a very nice set in 8.5mm, 9mm, 12mm, 12mm, 25mm, 50mm and they are as sharp and contrasty as anything I have ever used in Super 16. If you need something that is a lot more descreet (smaller and lighter) than a S4, I might look at Optars. Rodrigo, great work on AMORES PERROS, I look forward to seeing more of your films... especially if they are in S16! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Andrew: Thanks for your comments on Amores Perros. The new film I'm working on is also with Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu. The Optar Illumina are good for Super 16? Where can you rent them? Do you prefer them to the Zeiss? How about Zooms? Also, what is the difference betweetn the Arri SRIII Advanced and the Arri SR III? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ype Poortinga Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 the srIII has a new gate design which makes the movement steadier, and it does have a viewfinder which is much brighter then the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Williamson Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 As others have mentioned before, it's a pleasure to have you on the forum, Rodrigo. I'm a huge fan of your work, "Frida" being my personal favorite, amazing colors. As far as the Optar Illuminas are concerned, I've used them before and liked them very much, my experience with professional lensese is admittedly limited though. The selling point with the Optars is that they're specifically designed for Super16, as opposed to the Zeiss lenses which have been designed for 35mm. You would probably want to compare them to Zeiss lenses or the Cooke S4's. In terms of zooms, I remember reading that Cesar Charlone had high praise for the Angenieux 7-81mm HR zoom lens that he used on "City of God", there's an American Cinematographer article in the Feb. 2003 ("Chicago" on the cover) that talks about it. Good luck with your upcoming film, I'm sure everyone here is looking forwards to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Nathan Milford Posted March 25, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 25, 2005 Andrew: Thanks for your comments on Amores Perros. The new film I'm working on is also with Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu. The Optar Illumina are good for Super 16? Where can you rent them? Do you prefer them to the Zeiss? How about Zooms? Also, what is the difference betweetn the Arri SRIII Advanced and the Arri SR III? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Rodrigo, you can find more info on the Optar Illuminas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Wendell_Greene Posted March 25, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 25, 2005 How about Zooms? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You should definitely take a look at the Angieneaux 7-81mm for Super 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Wendell_Greene Posted March 25, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted March 25, 2005 Also, what is the difference betweetn the Arri SRIII Advanced and the Arri SR III? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I shot a music videos with the SR3 Advanced HS from Otto Nemenz in Hollywood. [disclaimer- don't work for them, or have any financial interest, I just like their service] This camera can film up to 150 fps and is desgined with a better film gate, the rails are made of chrome plating and unlike the earlier cameras they make complete contact from top to bottom so the result is improved steadiness in the image. The Advanced also comes with a Arriglow in the viewfinder not to mention a lot of the electronic accesorries that you'd find with the 435. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F Bulgarelli Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Hola Rodrigo, At Clairmont we have a great variety of Super16 zooms and primes. I think the 11-165 Canon is a great lens. Very sharp and compact, with a great range, it's probably our most popular lens. That will match well with a 7-63 or 8-64 canon, also great lenses. Also we have some of the Elite/Optar lenses like the 4.5mm, 7mm, 8mm (which cover super 16, contrary to the old zeiss 8mm which will only give you as much as 1.78), 20mm, 35mm. These lenses fill in the gaps when combine with the zeiss speeds which are 9.5, 12mm, 16mm, 25mm and 50mm. when are you shooting the 16mm part of your film? Saludes, Francisco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Hi Rodrigo. I'm new here and I don't know much. The only thing I know is that the SRIII advanced has a much brighter viewfinder 'cause they got rid of the lightmeter. But the reason I reply is that I'm an estimator of you huge work. One my favourite movie ever is Amores Perros ;) tnx bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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