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Sony's new cameras: F5 and F55 4K and 2K internal or RAW output, Elc. global shutter etc.


Vincent Sweeney

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People even complain about people complaining about things that they weren't complaining about! ;)

There were very clearly complaints about the codec and the wrapper, I don't know why you have to pretend nothing negative about this camera was said. And so what if I talk about things that weren't discussed? I'm talking in general, which this is a general forum.

 

I think this camera looks great, they've put a lot of the best of all the worlds into it and it's something to be positive about.

 

I'm not going to argue anymore cause it's pointless, I'll listen to what people here have to say when they've used the camera and talked about the real world experience. Until then, I couldn't really care less.

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There were very clearly complaints about the codec and the wrapper, I don't know why you have to

 

Were they complaints, or were they just people talking about the things they liked and disliked about the camera. Also I don't think you understood what people were saying about the codec and wrapper, i.e. that it was nothing really new, so why have they created a new wrapper for it? It would definitely be good if this kind of thing was more standardised like the situation we used to have with the DV codec. That was great!

 

pretend nothing negative about this camera was said. And so what if I talk about things that

 

Of course negative things were said about the camera. It's good to discuss the negative as well as the positive things about a camera in order to weigh up the pro's and cons of working with such a thing. I wouldn't see that as being exactly the same thing as complaining. There were things said that were bordering on complaining but they weren't about the camera specifically but in more general terms. I think any suggestion there was complaining is over-egging the pudding.

 

weren't discussed? I'm talking in general, which this is a general forum.

 

That would be fine but what you were talking about did not seem to apply to the thread at all and it also was directed at people in the thread who had not said anything about the matters you were talking about. I actually don't mind things going off topic, like they are now. I do mind when people suggest things about peoples character that there is no evidence for or suggest that they have said things that is plainly not the case. If you want to change the subject, just change the subject instead of trying to suggest that other people have said things they havn't.

 

On the subject of negativity, if you were getting annoyed that Phil was sounding a bit negative, I would point out that it is rather like complaining that the sea is a bit salty. It is what it is! I actually think he has been sounding more positive about things lately. :)

 

 

I think this camera looks great, they've put a lot of the best of all the worlds into it and it's something to be positive about.

 

Definitely! Has a real kind of style to it and on paper looks very interesting.

 

 

I'm not going to argue anymore cause it's pointless, I'll listen to what people here have to say when they've used the camera and talked about the real world experience. Until then, I couldn't really care less.

 

Sounds like a great idea! :)

 

love

 

Freya

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What about waveform monitor, spotmeter, false colors,

histograms, channel clipping indicators?

 

Nothing of that mentioned so far in specs.

 

Best

 

Igor

 

 

PS: I find the discussion of what will the "democratization"

of high quality image making gear bring also interesting.

Why not a topic for a new thread?

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I would only assume that the camera has a lot of that built in. I mean hell, the EX1 has had it and I'd say histograms and peaking are kind of standard these days in a package (though I'm not sure if the FS series has had it in there or not).

 

False colors and spot meters, who knows, but with a histogram do you really need a spot meter anyway-- and assuming most DoPs will have their own spot meters anyway.

 

I'd also be interested to know how "loud" the fans are. After having dealt with the noise on an Epic, once we get to these large(er) sized cameras, fan noise can become a bigger deal.

 

--Also, I'm wondering if it in any-way has a XLR power input for 24v or 12v as I'd love to option block batteries and battery belts to get a bit more run without re-booting (which is another thing to wonder about-- boot up times. Nothing irks me more than waiting for the damned camera to turn on before I can see an image!)

 

of course all of that, I am sure, will be discovered as they cameras trickle out.

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I'd also be interested to know how "loud" the fans are. After having dealt with the noise on an Epic, once we get to these large(er) sized cameras, fan noise can become a bigger deal.

 

--Also, I'm wondering if it in any-way has a XLR power input for 24v or 12v as I'd love to option block batteries and battery belts to get a bit more run without re-booting (which is another thing to wonder about-- boot up times. Nothing irks me more than waiting for the damned camera to turn on before I can see an image!)

 

of course all of that, I am sure, will be discovered as they cameras trickle out.

 

I've seen pictures of the camera that show a standard 4pin XLR and a cute little fan.

I'm guessing from the size of it that the fan won't be THAT noisy, but it may not be completely silent.

 

love

 

Freya

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...and heres a pic that shows the 4 pin XLR. Strangely it doesn't show the fan, that might be what is above the XLR but it looked different on the pic I saw *shrug* I note this power socket is on one of the extended modules.

 

Sony-F5-F55-Back-View-e1351587385519.jpg

 

love

 

Freya

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  • 3 weeks later...

Global shutter sounds amazing! I think it will be a big deal but I have not noticed rolling shutter artifacts in major films or my own stuff....I guess people are just working around it good but I look forward to seeing potentially better cinematography because of the global shutter...though I imagine its not going to be something as major as going from interlaced to 24p or DV to HD...

 

You know, I really don't want to call this all "exciting." it's almost a bit of a pain in the ass. With the turn arounds on these systems; as soon as you start to get proficient in one camera and set up for one main workflow, familiar enough with it to start pushing it towards interesting limits-- there's a new crazy, a new camera, and your back to square on. And while I'm all for choices, I feel it was almost easier when systems weren't to radically changed so quickly-- where you could know something like the "back of your hand."

 

That all said, these cameras do look rather nice on paper-- and hopefully what will come out next from _____ will fix whatever is missing. I would love, honestly, for there to be a more standardized type of "format." which all cameras can just record to-- one simple file format we can all get our heads 'round, and our post up to snuff on.

There was a cam operator who posted somewhere about in the days of film all you had to worry about regardless of whether you were using an Arri 35 IIC or a Panaflex of some type was the film stock...the camera was truly just a tool...it seams like even some pro's drool over digital cinema cameras more than they look at them as tools...did DPs and film makers drool over film cameras every time they came out? I don't get that feel...it seams like film matured fast and digital will never fully mature....not saying its unusable but the tech world changes too fast. Idk I drool over RED Epics and Alexa but its really only because I don't get the choice of shooting on those...lately tech's glory fades real fast...I look at my camera as a tool and on the rare occasion I DO get to use a nice camera the honeymoon lasts REAL short and the camera quickly becomes yet another tool as it should be...the only reason I care about bit depth, color space, codecs, etc. is because I care about what the image looks like and that is really the primary thing a DP should care about, everything should be secondary.

 

I don't understand why we can't make some magical codec that contains ProRes 4444, REDCODE, CinemaDNG, etc. fused together! The Alexa really seams like a big deal with ProRes but I feel like camera makers are too interested in making their own codec than benefiting the film world overall and going with a standard or universal codec...I really hate AVCHD for example....I feel like this new H.265 or whatever is just gonna make me hate Sony even more...IMO new compression tech should really be focused on delivery...not aquiration...I will gladly fill up media faster with ProRes HQ than use H.264 or H.265 or whatever is around.

 

Shoot > Edit (I know thats Arri's saying but it makes sense). Maybe their is a conspiracy theory going around about computer makers paying off camera makers and the brass who makes codecs so we have to keep buying faster and faster computers XD :D :D

Edited by Nate Opgenorth
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Viscous circle my friend!

 

Though I can see some people getting excited for certain film cameras with new abilities (435's electronic shutter and all that opened up for example). I think it's just our film cameras are 100 years old! Our digital... well I don't think they've even fully gotten to the walking stage yet ;)

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Thanks Freya.

Kinda an odd design; It's like an Alexa and Epic love-child.

 

Turns out that fan vent is on the RAW recorder. There is also a fan vent just behined the handle on the top of the camera itself that is of a similar size to the one pictured.

Not sure if there is a fan in it or if that's just a vent but the one in the raw recorder is def a fan.

The prototype I saw appeared to be completely silent tho. We didn't fire up the raw recorder however!

 

Interesting thing about that photo I posted is the space where the audio XLR's go. We were wondering what kind of connector was behined the XLR module and going from this photo, it appears there is no connector behined the XLR module, just a smooth plastic surface. Hmmmmm. It could all work by magic of course but I'm inclined to believe that this photo is a bit fishy.

 

Thing is it turns out that the camera isn't even finished yet by a Loooooong way!

Hopefully they will fix a few of the more serious design issues before its release in February!

 

love

 

Freya

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Global shutter sounds amazing! I think it will be a big deal but I have not noticed rolling shutter artifacts in major films or my own stuff....

 

But most major films have been shot on film until very recently (even now they are mostly on film) and I'm under the impression that the Alexa studio also has a global shutter?

 

l...it seams like even some pro's drool over digital cinema cameras more than they look at them as tools...did DPs and film makers drool over film cameras

 

To be fair, yes they did, and they still do to a certain extent, it's just not quite so rabid as it is with video cameras. ;)

 

nice camera the honeymoon lasts REAL short and the camera quickly becomes yet another tool as it should be...the only reason I care about bit depth, color space, codecs, etc. is because I care about what the image looks like and that is really the primary thing a DP should care about, everything should be secondary.

 

and this is the important bit. All of these things affect the image which is why cinematographers are interested in them. With film it didn't really matter what the camera was so much, it was just a box, and as you suggest, the lenses and the film inside it were the important factor. Now it is like the cameras themselves are the filmstock as they each have different looks. It's a lot more restrictive in some ways but that's the way it is!

 

I don't understand why we can't make some magical codec that contains ProRes 4444, REDCODE, CinemaDNG, etc. fused together!

 

It would certainly be possible for a camera to support a number of codecs. Isn't the blackmagic camera going to support ProRes, CinemaDNG and DNXHD?

One of the neat things about the "new F" cameras is that they support a number of codecs and you can record to more than one at the same time. So you could be recording to the XDCam style codec and to the Mpeg4 style codec at the same time, and then use one as proxy files for editing the other.

 

Was actually impressed by a lot I saw about this camera.

 

love

 

Freya

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