Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted January 7, 2013 OK Here is some 5245 Photographed with a Wescam in 2000 over NYC by Brian Heller.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rose Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I for one am shooting my next doc on film. I'm dissatisfied with all the new cameras coming out, each one claiming to be a gamechanger, and I'm going to instead use the gear I have, shoot on 16mm black and white, and I intend to have Cinelab do the post work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Here is some 5245 Photographed with a Wescam in 2000 over NYC by Brian Heller.... A real treat (a cool little experience). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Cunningham Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I downloaded the full version and it looks amazing. Can't wait for the pricing. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Cunningham Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I reviewed it one more time and I feel like it looks a bit grainy/noisy. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Cunningham Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 50D at dusk... wonder if it was just under exposed a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rose Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I downloaded the full version and it looks amazing. Can't wait for the pricing. :) Same here. If the price is right, I could honestly see myself shooting a lot more film... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tebbe Schoeningh Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 OK Here is some 5245 Photographed with a Wescam in 2000 over NYC by Brian Heller.... https://vimeo.com/56889223 beautiful. and this is 12 year old footage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted January 17, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted January 17, 2013 Pricing is now on the Cinelab web site. www.cinelab.com -Rob- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted January 17, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2013 Pricing is now on the Cinelab web site. www.cinelab.com -Rob- Thanks Rob for the info. I must admit that I was hoping for a bit cheaper than that but it's your business. But .70/ft for well corrected footage for 16 seems awful steep. Anyone know how much Paul charges for Scanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted January 17, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted January 17, 2013 The rates on the site are our "Commercial" rates and we typically give Indie producers the 20% student discount, also there are discounts for volume, etc. I think that you will find that Cinelab is generally pretty flexible and we can be a bit because our overhead is generally lower by being in Massachusetts by the water instead being in a higher rent area. DPX scans and correction are generally slower to scan and much more data to work with than a telecine process, we do have a faster servo scanner in the works which will be 3K+ color at 15 FPS which I think will fit nicely between our HD offerings and the Pin-Registered machine. -Rob- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted January 17, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2013 DPX scans and correction are generally slower to scan and much more data to work with than a telecine process, we do have a faster servo scanner in the works which will be 3K+ color at 15 FPS which I think will fit nicely between our HD offerings and the Pin-Registered machine. -Rob- Will said machine be available by summer time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted January 17, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted January 17, 2013 We and the DCS people in LA are working on it, the hardware is going together but I can't definitely say that it will be running by summer, but that is the target. The Pin -Reg Xena machine runs at about 2 FPS at up to 4K now and with the newer 6.6K sensor it should run at about 5-6 FPS for up to 3.5K 16mm scans (16, Ultra-16 and Super-16) so it will never be a speed demon but it will deliver top quality scans with either sensor and I feel that we have tried to price the scans as competitively as possible without giving the work away. The Servo machine will be about a 3.5K color sensor and as with cameras no Bayer or other type of color sensor will ever be truly as good as a full frame scan of each R,G and B channel but it will be more than HD and scan all formats from 8mm to 35mm. -Rob- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted January 17, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2013 ...I feel that we have tried to price the scans as competitively as possible without giving the work away. At $1,080 per hour of uncorrected footage, I dont think anyone will convince you of "giving it away." ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted January 17, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted January 17, 2013 Well let's consider the 2160 ft. of 16mm film as being about $775.00 worth of film stock, the scans with a 20% student/indi discount would be $864 at $0.40/ft and developing the film would be $259 at $0.12/ft so a total for 5.4 400' rolls would be $1898.00 which is less than one day of an Alexa rental with glass and support. -Rob- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted January 17, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hey Rob; mind if i steal that quote to post up on another site about the benefits/costs of shooting film ect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Will Montgomery Posted January 17, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2013 Well let's consider the 2160 ft. of 16mm film as being about $775.00 worth of film stock, the scans with a 20% student/indi discount would be $864 at $0.40/ft and developing the film would be $259 at $0.12/ft so a total for 5.4 400' rolls would be $1898.00 which is less than one day of an Alexa rental with glass and support. But to get quality results you'd probably be renting a higher-end 16mm camera and the corresponding lenses for somewhere in the $300-$500 a day range. You aren't going to get Alexa results on a Scoopic, I've tried. I always look at the cost of the transfer as really being the cost of the colorist and therefore that's what I look for; the best colorist I can find for the money. Not necessarily the absolute best scan. For one hour of film running time I'd expect 3 to 4 hours of transfer and color correction so really Rob's price is fairly competitive that way (if that is color corrected and not flat). It's a tough business to be in with everyone looking for something for nothing. I'd love to see a flat 2K scan of 16mm for $.10/foot. That would make me shoot more film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted January 17, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted January 17, 2013 Feel free to do so, although I will need some residuals on any major big budget studio work you get by using it :rolleyes: Also I want to add that scanning film to DPX frames as 2K or 3K is really more for finishing that scanning the whole project, typically if you are shooting a feature we would do a process and Pro-ResHQ transfer package and then you would go back to the original negative with an EDL and scan just the shots needed (with handles) for final assembly. 2K DPX frames are allot of data to deal with an hour of them is somewhere around 750G and to play them back on a laptop you will need a fast Thunderbolt disk array. I just sent a 1600' scan out Friday for a student project where we charged the $0.40/ft. rate and I threw in a Pro-Res444 flat pass with the job so the student could have a file he could reasonably work with. We try to make film as accessible as possible at Cinelab for students and indie people but we also have to have pricing for archives and professional shoots that is in line with the time and effort it takes to make excellent quality scans. Nobody is getting rich in the film lab business, believe me, the last time people were getting rich was in the mid 80's and I was in middle school so I missed that... -Rob- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted January 17, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hell, If I'm ever in a position of having tons of money thrown at me; feel free to stick out a hand and grab a stack, Rob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael T Gardner Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 The price is extremely competitive. Cinelab, your prices are beating the pants off of Cinelicious from when I last enquired. Not only better than their Scanity prices, but their Spirit as well. Someone correct me if my math is off. Charging by the foot is genius too, so much easier to calculate costs. Cinelicious charges by the hour. I am sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted March 14, 2013 Author Site Sponsor Share Posted March 14, 2013 Paul's operation at Cinelicious seems really great but he is in an entirely different market than what we do at Cinelab, his shop is right in LA and he has allot more overhead than we do. Cinelicious is more of a boutique post house and Cinelab is a full service lab. I have felt for a while now that scanning should be priced by the foot and that the cost quality and speed of film to digital scanning should be more tied to moore's law and emerging technology is starting to allow that to happen. The Xena scanner is designed as a modular scanner, all of the electronics and even the sensor are off the shelf components and can be changed out with a few wiring harness changes or a new mount for the sensor. Older scanners and telecine's have racks of custom boards to perform functions like servo transport control or illumination control. What used to take a rack of chips and a ton of custom design can now be done in a box, specifically the servo controls for the film transport. There are proprietary boards in the Xena (like the LED Lamp board and LED controller) but much of it is designed to be highly modular and the heart of the machine, the actual sensor, can be changed out with a simple swap of a mount. There are now incredible sensors available for astronomy and high end vision applications, like the 6600x4400 monochrome CCD we are planning to acquire which will allow for extremely high resolution scans at extremely low sensor noise and high dynamic range. Also because the scanner is built around a Full Frame sensor instead of a line array double flash HDR is about to be implemented by the engineers in LA. As a lab we may have to increase the costs of photochemical processes because of the cost of chemistry but I think that in general the cost of digitization can drop to offset that. -Rob- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Lee Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Just wanted to add on the topic of Kodak 50D being not so good in the MTF in the data sheets.. the 5201 data sheet was similar.. seemingly inferior to all the other stocks in sharpness. In any case, back in uni, I shot some 5201 50D on Super16 on a Aaton XTR Prod, with a Canon zoom lens (forget which), all footage shot at 5.6 Watched a 2K Spirit DataCine transfer as it was happening a nice screen, I have to say it was quite crystal clear, I don't think it'd be lacking in the detail department, obviously I didn't get to try 200T or 250D side by side and haven't done motion picture film shooting since, but it was fantastic stock to shoot on, and delivered beyond expectation for a small format (I shoot a lot of still film). More people should go for 50D, we shot very early morning to late afternoon, all through the day, 5.6 and 180 degree all the way through no ND to start with and up to 3 stop ND when it got to the brightest conditions. Detail also depends on subject contrast too. 50D would be a good stock to shoot contrasty scenes with I would think as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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