New to the forum - have a couple of basic 16mm film questions

[scott rader]

Hello,

 

New to both the forum as well as the 16mm film process itself. I look forward to learning a great deal from both the existing topics as well as thru my questions to you.

 

Film stock and processing

 

Where do purchase the majority of your 16mm film stock (online)?

 

Where do you have your processing work done?

 

 

Just as an fyi, I recently inhereited my grandfathers Bolex H16 Reflex

 

 

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Generally, I find it best to give Kodak a call and buy directly from them. You can sometimes get some good deals and once you have a relationship with a rep there, you can ask for a few test rolls here and again to evaluate stock for projects, for free.

As for processing and TC, a lot will depend on where you live.

I have used NFL Films in NJ a lot for my Processing, as well as Technicolor, Colorlab and Cinelab.

For Transfer NFL is nice if you get supervised, and I really enjoyed my few times through Cinelab.

 

Out here on the west-coast I'll be using Fotokem as well as Cinelicious whenever possible.. Or that's the going plan at least.

[Heikki Repo]

Hi Scott and welcome! :)

 

Where are you located? If US, you can call Kodak and buy from them. B&H (

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Movie-Film/ci/341/N/4289360509 ) sells movie film as well, and for black and white you could also buy ORWO stocks from http://www.orwona.com

 

In Europe Wittner (http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de) sells different stocks in 100ft loads which fit your camera. However, Wittner doesn't stock Kodak negative film for 16mm so for that you'd need to buy from some other place like Stanley's http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/category-193.html or http://www.film1635.cz/en/e-shop.php or http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/Kodak_16_mm_Film.html

 

For processing there is quite nice list of different labs in different countries:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=59512

 

Concerning the camera you have inherited: do you know when it was last used and serviced? Over time the machinery of the Bolex might become slowed if not cleaned and serviced.

[scott rader]

Hi Scott and welcome! :)

 

Where are you located? If US, you can call Kodak and buy from them. B&H (

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Movie-Film/ci/341/N/4289360509 ) sells movie film as well, and for black and white you could also buy ORWO stocks from http://www.orwona.com

 

In Europe Wittner (http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de) sells different stocks in 100ft loads which fit your camera. However, Wittner doesn't stock Kodak negative film for 16mm so for that you'd need to buy from some other place like Stanley's http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/category-193.html or http://www.film1635.cz/en/e-shop.php or http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/Kodak_16_mm_Film.html

 

For processing there is quite nice list of different labs in different countries:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=59512

 

Concerning the camera you have inherited: do you know when it was last used and serviced? Over time the machinery of the Bolex might become slowed if not cleaned and serviced.

 

Heikki,

 

I am in the States (Kansas City), so thanks for that information.

 

I do not know the last time the camera was serviced. I do know it's been in the original box for at least a couple of decades, so there's not too many miles on it :) .

 

I do realize I'm in over my head based on the make up of this forum (film professionals, etc), so I really appreciate the input from everyone.

 

Scott

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I would certainly spend the money to get everything cleaned up and re-set on the Bolex. I'm not aware, personally of any Bolex techs here in the US, I am sure you can track that information down. They really are fun little cameras.

In fact it was one of the first film cameras I ever used, and there have been a few times I wish I had one with me (most notably when I was over-seas and the town we were in lost power for 3 days).

Oddest thing with it is the non-typical shutter speed and the light loss from the viewfinder prism in the REX models. If memory serves, it's about a 1/80th of a second exposure speed once you factor in the shutter angle and prism light loss as opposed to the typical 1/48th in a film camera.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

They go into it here:

 

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=10884

[Heikki Repo]

 

Heikki,

 

I am in the States (Kansas City), so thanks for that information.

 

I do not know the last time the camera was serviced. I do know it's been in the original box for at least a couple of decades, so there's not too many miles on it :) .

 

I do realize I'm in over my head based on the make up of this forum (film professionals, etc), so I really appreciate the input from everyone.

 

Scott

 

At this point you might want to check on the details of your camera. There are different versions of Bolex H16 Reflex. Quite good source of information is http://www.bolexcollector.com/ which lists the different models and serial numbers. You'll find the serial number of your Bolex on the other side of the door.

 

Oh, and by the way -- I was in high school when I registered on this forum 2005. Great place, really!

[David Cunningham]

The team at http://super16inc.com will refurb your bolex and if you're interested also do a laserbrighten (to significantly brighten the reflex view-finder) and a super16 gate widening and alignment. If you want the best your bolex can offer in the 16mm format, they are the best ones I know of to contact.

[David Cunningham]

Oh, and totally agree. Set yourself up with a business account at Kodak and you'll get amazingly lower prices than any other mail-order. And, they're fast.

[scott rader]

David and Adrian,

 

Thanks so much for your input. Great stuff.

 

Another couple of elementary question that you'll probably chuckle at and/or shake your head.....

 

1) I'll be running 100' rolls of film thru the Bolex. Based on the normal wind duration of around 30 seconds and assuming I'm filming at 24 fps, a person could run thru the film in as quickly as 6 "cycles", for lack of a better phrase. That much I think is correct. My question is, if you film a minute of so and then don't plan on filming anything else for a couple of days...is there a problem with that? In other words, are you best served to plan on using the entire 100' during one filming session?

 

2) I've completed filming, let's say 5-6 rolls of film, and I send them off to Cinelab for processing. Cinelab then sends the processed film back to me. My question is regarding the telecine process. Specifically, Cinelab, or any other processor, would or would not perform filming editing services for a neophyte like myself prior to transferring to a DVD?

 

thanks so much.

 

Scott

[Heikki Repo]

1) I'll be running 100' rolls of film thru the Bolex. Based on the normal wind duration of around 30 seconds and assuming I'm filming at 24 fps, a person could run thru the film in as quickly as 6 "cycles", for lack of a better phrase. That much I think is correct. My question is, if you film a minute of so and then don't plan on filming anything else for a couple of days...is there a problem with that? In other words, are you best served to plan on using the entire 100' during one filming session?

No problems there. Just make sure the camera isn't sitting in some hot place (car, for example).

 

2) I've completed filming, let's say 5-6 rolls of film, and I send them off to Cinelab for processing. Cinelab then sends the processed film back to me. My question is regarding the telecine process. Specifically, Cinelab, or any other processor, would or would not perform filming editing services for a neophyte like myself prior to transferring to a DVD?

Depends on the lab. Usually, however, the lab splices the rolls together for easier telecine, if that's what you are asking.

[Mark Dunn]

If you're concerned about leaving it wound up for a while, it's better to wind it down, but I think you would have to leave it for months or years for it to be a problem mechanically. Certainly don't waste film just to run it down.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

As mentioned, you can certainly leave it loaded, but I woudln't leave it wound.

As for the T/C, you can have the lab do that for you at the time of development. Normally i ask for ProRes 422 or 444 on a hard drive @1080 and it comes back with the film.

[David Cunningham]

Most remaining labs are full service. This means they will process, prep, clean and scan your films all with quick turn-around times. Obviously, process means process. Prep and clean means they will take all your rolls (in a certain order if you number them in advance), splice them together and (while cleaning them for dust, etc) put them on a "core" for proper storage and telecine/data scanning. Then, they will run them through whatever telecine/scanning process you desire.

 

At cinelab you can go as simple and cheap as a one-light pass on their Y-Front in standard definition. This will give you a general idea of the shots you got. But, they will be in 480i and not color corrected. The expensive end is their new scanner which (right now) will do up to 2K uncompressed and color corrected files to give you the best possible digital files of your film.

[scott rader]

Depends on the lab. Usually, however, the lab splices the rolls together for easier telecine, if that's what you are asking.

 

Great. Thanks.

 

Final question for today. Would a lab also be able to assist with voice over / background music at the time they perform the telecine process?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

That's not something a lab would do. You'd put in your V/O and music based off of your final edit.

[scott rader]

That's not something a lab would do. You'd put in your V/O and music based off of your final edit.

 

All right, I lied....now I have another question. You get your film processed and have the T/C (to hard drive) completed and back in your possession You can then add v/o and/or music as you can edit this (hard drive) format, correct?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Exactly.

Normally you'd load all the footage up in your editor and you'll start taking stuff away (or shooting extra stuff) to make your edit. So it doesn't make sense to add in any v/o or music until the very end when you know exactly how long your project is, down' to the frame, and exactly where the shots belong.

 

Now if you were recording dialogue ect, then yes you can work with labs to sync that up for your dailies and on your scan, if you'd like, but even here you haven't go to do it that way (it's an added cost @ the lab) as that is something synchronous you'd want to cut with the picture (for example, you take away 1/2 of a scene you and you'd usually not want that scene's audio to carry over to the next scene-- though this is sometimes left in for artistic reasons).

[Heikki Repo]

 

All right, I lied....now I have another question. You get your film processed and have the T/C (to hard drive) completed and back in your possession You can then add v/o and/or music as you can edit this (hard drive) format, correct?

Correct.

[Will Montgomery]

The end result of telecine is generally one large, high quality digital video file that you can edit, color and manipulate just like it came off a digital video camera but it will look like film.

[scott rader]

The end result of telecine is generally one large, high quality digital video file that you can edit, color and manipulate just like it came off a digital video camera but it will look like film.

 

 

Thanks Adrian, Heikki and Will! And just to make sure I understand, by edit, would that include the ability to, as an example, take a 15 second segment and move it within the overall film itself?

 

Thanks!

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Exactly. As well as, in the digital realm, replicated it, slow it down, reverse it, speed it up, and many other things I am sure I'm not thinking of.

[Cory Zapatka]

....and for black and white you could also buy ORWO stocks from http://www.orwona.com ....

This caught my attention-- have you shot with ORWO before? I've never heard of them, but am interested in a different B&W stock since Fuji discontinued theirs. I've been happy with Kodak's 7222, but now I'm too curious.