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Permits, filming in the woods, beaches.


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That's true. Robert Rodriguez is an amazing DP, and Steadicam Op. At least, that's what he likes to tell the world when he poses for the publicity stills. He's also really talented in all of the other 25 jobs he's credited himself with on IMDB.

I detect sarcasm. And say what you will about the man but neither of us are likely to have 1/10th of his success in our lifetime.

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It's very important to realise that riches and success don't actually make someone a decent and worthwhile human being.

 

Quite the opposite, frequently.

 

The fact that this is not obvious and is frequently overlooked is one of the things I like least about modern society.

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It's very important to realise that riches and success don't actually make someone a decent and worthwhile human being.

 

Quite the opposite, frequently.

 

The fact that this is not obvious and is frequently overlooked is one of the things I like least about modern society.

So now being wealthy and successful = being a bad person. Wow, this thread has descended into self parody.

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Well, I said frequently.

 

The problem is societal - by far the easiest way to gain wealth and success is to trample on other people to get it. Modern, particularly western, society greatly facilitates this, and fails to sufficiently punish it.

 

There are presumably exceptions. But what's important is not this particular issue, it's that we don't automatically assume that people who are wealthy are also people of any personal - I don't know - what's the word - quality. Nobody makes that sort of claim about bankers, for instance, and not only because they're fashionable current boogeymen.

 

P

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So now being wealthy and successful = being a bad person. Wow, this thread has descended into self parody.

 

I think the basic point that Phil is trying to make is that being wealthy and successful does not equal being a good person.

 

Freya

Edited by Freya Black
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Well, Adrian, I admire your opinion. I always have. But I also don't believe in waiting around until I have perfect money and everything else. It sounds cliche but I come from the Robert Rodriguez school of thought in that if someone wont work with me, I will do it myself. DP is not such a unique set of skills to where a person cannot pick up what they need for their vision. And if RR thought like you did, he would still be a nobody. Sometimes we think too "big" about things that it hinders us getting to our dream.

 

There is definitely nobody stopping you from doing that!

 

It sounds like you are imagining that there are other people holding you back in some way.

In my experience the big problems are not other people holding you back so much as economics, "random sh** that happens" and most of all peoples own fears.

 

Freya

Edited by Freya Black
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It sounds like you are imagining that there are other people holding you back in some way.

In my experience the big problems are not other people holding you back so much as economics, "random sh** that happens" and most of all peoples own fears.

 

Well, yes and no. No one is "technically" holding me back but when i try to enlist help from others (to this point, it is always the DP that is the sticking point) it becomes extremely tedious and becomes a dramatic affair. It results in me having to choose between shooting the movie or waiting around until I can satisfy the conditions of the diva known as the Cinematographer. I have talked with many DPs (some on this board) and even offered what I considered to be fair rates but there is still always some quirky thing that makes working with a DP out of the question while still funding the rest of my film.

 

Its like a fair rate isnt enough, then I have to rent the lenses they want; thats not enough gotta bring along a crew person they want; thats not enough they got have this style of light; blah blah. Compare that with the talent of the film who often just require credit, points, and some finger sandwiches in the middle of shooting. Who is more important? DP or talent? Let's see who we can more likely do without?

 

End of rant. I have derailed the OPs post enough. I am sorry. My advice though: If you can get the permit (with the insurance) then do it Adrian's way. I'm sure it is lower stress and funner. If you can't, go get the shot anyway. Life is to short to wait for permission to do what you love.

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I think it's quite a common problem that people have, that they look to other people to help them. I think this is a mistake although it's so hard to not slide into that way of thinking for some reason! I'm always amazed and really grateful when people do help me from time to time. :)

 

I'm very glad to hear that there are DP's out there saying no to projects. Lately it seems like people have been doing any old thing. I think it's good that these people say no to you Matthew. Do you really want someone on the set, especially in a key position, who isn't enthusiastic about it?!! Those kind of situations aren't good for anyone.

 

You should definitely just shoot the movie.

As Woody Allen once said "90% of success is turning up". In my experience this is very true.

 

You just have to find a way around the issues. Try and keep everything as simple as possible. Then later as things go on there will be less issues anyway hopefully.

 

By actually doing stuff you will meet more people and find the right people to work with.

 

Freya

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Its like a fair rate isnt enough, then I have to rent the lenses they want; thats not enough gotta bring along a crew person they want; thats not enough they got have this style of light; blah blah. Compare that with the talent of the film who often just require credit, points, and some finger sandwiches in the middle of shooting. Who is more important? DP or talent? Let's see who we can more likely do without?

 

I don't mean to get this thread off topic, but I'd like to point out one important difference between the two groups: for the actors their tool of trade are they themselves -- they don't need anything else. For DPs on the other hand the work is rather technical. They need the right tools to make everything happen. Taking an example from a completely different area of life: if you were to hire someone build you a house they probably would want to have the tools they need and are used to working with. Even if you supplied some tools that were ok for the job they might have preferences which are also linked to their ability to do their work well.

 

When working with lower rates (or for free!) question about tools becomes more important. The question is then for many DPs, does this work let me improve myself as a cinematographer? Or, is the work I'm doing something that I can put in my reel and resume? If enough resources aren't given there is a risk that even some paying gig might become a stumbling block for finding future work...

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When working with lower rates (or for free!) question about tools becomes more important. The question is then for many DPs, does this work let me improve myself as a cinematographer? Or, is the work I'm doing something that I can put in my reel and resume? If enough resources aren't given there is a risk that even some paying gig might become a stumbling block for finding future work...

Well, I was advertising $1k a week which I thought was fair but apparently that is low balling. Now I can pay it to myself and take a vacation. :D

 

Edit: the contractor can be picky about tools because they buy their own instead of expecting someone else to bankroll their preference.

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It depends what sort of production you're talking about. Offer me $1k a week to shoot something vaguely interesting and I'll be there like a shot, so long as I have at least some confidence in the project, the people, the script, etc. But yes, you will need to supply equipment and I would expect, fairly naturally, to have some sort of discussion with you about what sort of equipment would be best.

 

At that level, if someone is demanding a particular lens set over another of similar quality then yes they might perhaps be standing on ceremony rather too much, but it depends very much on what you're trying to achieve. If your ambitions and your budget are far enough out of alignment then all requests will seem unrealistic. Both producers and DPs are in a position to be unreasonable in this regard. Mismatches of expectations and disagreements are more or less normal. Carefully compare your DP's experience to your own. If he's done a lot more than you, which is not unusual if you're a producer, then you should tailor your response to his expectations accordingly.

 

 

That said, I don't recognise the situation you describe at all, possibly because I live and work in a place where most people would be happy to work on a production where they don't have to bring the camera along and lay out the tea and biscuits early in the morning. In the USA, the standard is, frankly, much higher. Even so, that relativity of expectations must still exist. The bottom line, though, is that if you want to hire someone and take his advice on equipment, which is normal, and if you then want to take that as someone being excessively demanding... well, yes, you can do that if you like, I suppose, but I think the burden of proof is really on you. If it's your show, you're paying for it, and you're taking advice. That's entirely normal.

 

The flipside of this is a discussion I had about eight weeks ago wherein the producer kept saying "If only you had a C300."

 

Well if I had a C300 it still wouldn't be free...

 

...of course some tosswit eventually gave them a package for free.

 

P

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The flipside of this is a discussion I had about eight weeks ago wherein the producer kept saying "If only you had a C300."

 

Well if I had a C300 it still wouldn't be free...

 

...of course some tosswit eventually gave them a package for free.

 

P

 

 

You might be better off out of it as that seems quite odd to me!

 

I mean why a C300 and not say an Arri Alexa and a set of Cooke S5's?

Maybe you only get one wish and that would be two and he already has a bunch of EF lenses?

 

I mean were they saying things like "I'm really trying to capture the look of high end cooking shows" or "I've been really struggling to get that "Dancing on Ice" look"?

 

I don't get the obsession with that particular camera. I mean would a Canon C500 not have been good enough?

I guess a C100 would be no good. That would be thinking small right?

 

On the other hand they might make a really odd movie that would be really interesting... or not.

 

Freya

Edited by Freya Black
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Without production insurance you can't rent any equipment. You're stuck with getting all of your gear from your crew. If a crew member bringing the Alexa or the 1 ton grip truck has a reason to leave or is asked to leave then suddenly, the equipment you got a great deal on is no longer there at all and you can't replace it cause it was never in the budget to begin with. It's best to rent at least G&E & Camera, always. It allows one the freedom to replace any crew member if you have to without shutting down production. But that requires insurance. Fractured Atlas is a great source for annual coverage at a fantastic rate on both liability and gear riders. Film Emporium is another.

Edited by Michael LaVoie
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Film Emporium is another.

Film Emporium offered a pretty competitive rate for General Liability, I must admit. But unlike other policies, theirs tended to go up with EVERY SINGLE THING you added to it, including gear rental. Whereas others tended to include more in their base pricing.

 

My opinion: No matter how the insurance is marketed to you, you get soaked in the end.

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