Lighting hotel room Crime scene on a shoestring

[Alexandre de Tolan]

After reading all the thread it seems to me that your movie looks like fun!

 

What hotel are you shooting at if you don't mind me asking? you could get an interesting view from the window with some other rooms if you are able to pick one.

 

If you want to have something interesting in the window you could use translucent or transparent led stripes all on the window so you can choose when to turn them on, the color you want to have or even better, which one you want to use for the angle you are shooting.

I've seen these transparent led stripes in Madrid in Calle Barquillo but I don't know if you will be able to get them in Sevilla.

 

Have you thought about using mirrors or reflections to create the skylight?

 

Regarding your question about color separation, with a room as good as that one, why don't you place a tube or a fixture with a different color temperature inside the room?

I can see only one photo but providing you have the bed in the part I don't see and you have a table in between, you might want to use some different colors for lighting the bed, maybe single fluorescent tubes that you can place above the bed as a part of the set?

 

If everything has to be red red, you could use those elements to give a good sense of depth and they will help you create the separation you're looking for, in fact, you could use a red kinoflo tube and over expose it completely so you have something different? :)

You might want to talk with the director about being absolutely unrealistic when lighting this feature as it looks like the script might give you room to be as creative as you want to be with your photography.

 

For example, if you have a big lamp hanging from the ceiling you could use that lamp to place a 1K just pointing down to the floor so you have a very hard light to create contrast, use some smoke and there you go!

 

:)

 

Hi Miguel,

 

We are shooting in a Hotel in Lisbon, Portugal, called D. Pedro in Amoreiras. From the windows we only see a far distant hill with some very small house lights. Very different from NYC. The Director is thinking on giving up NYC which I think is a shame since this story is based on true events occurred in a NYC Hotel.

 

I suspect that reflections would work in this case. They are a double-edged sword since the window glass will also reflect the crew and that is something I'll have to deal with before shooting. Ideally we would replace the original glass with anti-reflective coated ones but since we aren't allowed to do that I have to search for some anti-reflective product to apply on the windows.

 

The bedroom is like that one and the two are connected trough a passage. The actors will be on one room in one minute and on the other in the next. Yes. I'm planning to mix color temperatures.

 

I'm certain that I would have big difficulties trying to persuade the Director into something unrealistic. We gathered for 4 times now and he's a bit single-minded.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

There must be a market for an electroluminescent backlit system for very low depth scenarios like this...

 

Probably have to cost a fortune given that you'd be trimming lots of EL panel to suit windows.

 

You read my mind :)

 

I first thought of front projection too. The only problem is it's expensive. The material, called Scotchlite, goes for around $700 for 2 x 3 meters, I think. Then you'd need a high quality beam-splitter to go in front of the lens (the projector then shoots into the beam-splitter, opposite the camera lens, so they are on the same axis). Too bad they don't rent set-ups for this. The plus side is the projector could be pretty cheap since it doesn't really need to be very bright, and those Picos that Adrian suggested are small enough they could go anywhere. I'm guessing all that will be cost prohibitive though.

 

How about heavy ND on the windows to let a little "blue moonlight" (actually gelled down daylight) creep in. This might be totally crazy, but you might be able to build a craftboard or even cardboard skyline with windows cut out and then put LED's behind it. The whole thing might only be 2-3" thick, something like a big, weird shaped pizza box (You'd need sides and a back to the thing to keep the LED's from spilling all over, and you could coat the inside back of the box with tin-foil to spread the light out). As long as it's really out-of-focus with sheer curtains in front, it might work. You could even gel he little window cut-outs to give different color lights.

 

Or, this could all look totally cheesy. Might be something to try though. It wouldn't be too expensive.

 

Thank you for your tips Lance. I'm gathering all this information and I'll certainly try the least expensive ones and see how it turns out, albeit I totally agree with Phil comments bellow.

 

 

All of these ideas are good but will suffer the issue that they can only be shot from one angle, or you'll see the trick. Might be OK for an establisher or very out of focus in an over-the-shoulder sort of situation.

 

Consider LEDs (fairy lights, maybe) for spots of light in the "city".

 

P

 

Yes Phil. Your first statement is in line with my own thoughts about the subject. I don't think that a "window sandwich" will work on multiple angles.

 

As I said previously the Director is thinking giving up the idea of NYC which I find a really bad idea since the original events in which the story is based happened in NYC. In my next meeting with him I'm suggesting one of the first possibilities Adrian suggested. I wanted to avoid the need of post FX but I think greening the windows would be the cheaper and perhaps the cleaner/best solution.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Alexandre de Tolan]

There is something similar Phil.

 

Take a look at this, you might find it interesting.

 

 

Kindest regards.

 

Cool! :)But I don't need all that fancy gimmick. Right now I would be the happiest guy in the world if I could only have that window view to those skyscrapers :)

Edited February 13, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I don't see why one could put cold cathode tubes around the window frame, and then have that light up a white field of trace paper. IN front of that you'd have your image, with little bits cut out and pieces of gel. This would be rigged off of a frame of 2x4s, or something and placed in the window. The edges towards camera could be covered in drywall or even left normal and painted to match the color of the walls. I think this would sell in most shots--especially if it's slightly softened by curtains and depth of field.

 

It would depend on how the windows are built in the location-- without seeing it in person I can't be sure it'd work-- but you're basically building a little light box.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

I don't see why one could put cold cathode tubes around the window frame, and then have that light up a white field of trace paper. IN front of that you'd have your image, with little bits cut out and pieces of gel. This would be rigged off of a frame of 2x4s, or something and placed in the window. The edges towards camera could be covered in drywall or even left normal and painted to match the color of the walls. I think this would sell in most shots--especially if it's slightly softened by curtains and depth of field.

 

It would depend on how the windows are built in the location-- without seeing it in person I can't be sure it'd work-- but you're basically building a little light box.

 

I Adrian. I understand the concept. My only concern is with multiple angles. It's a no brainer with Translites since they are outside the windows and the image seen will vary accordingly with the camera angle used.

 

With a light box you'll not have that change in "perspective". I suppose the cleaner and cheaper way to do this would be to green the windows depending on how much an FX guy will ask for track an image in post.

 

My initial idea was to shoot ProRes 4:2:2 but the Director insists on shooting RAW so that will also help post FX with a 4:4:4 color space.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Adrian Sierkowski]

That's very true-- but I don't think it'd matter as much if it was broken up by the curtains--it really just depends how closely it'll feature.

[Toby Orzano]

You've got a lot going against you on this one, and you might have to make some compromises that aren't satisfying personally, but I'm sure you'll still come out with a nice end product one way or another. The one thing that you have in your favor is that the audience can't see on screen what you had hoped to accomplish, and therefore won't miss it if it's not there.

 

You might have to have a window that you just can't see out of. Maybe there can be a closeup of a character peeking out the curtains and a cutaway to city scape outside, then back to the close-up—traditional continuity cutting. Sound design can play a big part too. This of course if you can't come up with something that looks good in the window.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

That's very true-- but I don't think it'd matter as much if it was broken up by the curtains--it really just depends how closely it'll feature.

 

I'm going to test it anyway and see how it will work out. The space is very tight hence my concerns. I suspect that on some shots the window will be close enough to see the trick.

 

The one thing that you have in your favor is that the audience can't see on screen what you had hoped to accomplish, and therefore won't miss it if it's not there.

 

 

You're absolutely right but when it comes to us (the ones behind the camera), you know how frustrating it really is to see something you've made falling short of your expectations ;)

[Alexandre de Tolan]

I'm replacing Photofloods for regular house bulbs since Photofloods are way too short lived for what I want (they are going to be on at least 3 hours a day accounting that we'd turn them off between takes).

 

My first idea was to replace them for regular incandescent bulbs. They can be dimmed and there's no flicker but I'm wondering if I can source dimmers that can handle a strip of at least 6 75W bulbs on a 220V circuit. I can always connect every 2 bulbs to a floor lamp dimmer but that would imply too much cabling running out from the celling (where I want those lamps to be).

 

Regular plastic E27 sockets can be used on these contrary to obligatory ceramic ones on Photofloods. The plastic sockets will save some weight to put this DIY overhead light on the ceiling but I still have to find the best way to put them on without hurting the ceilings. Any ideas would be welcome.

 

The other option is CFL but that would mean no dimming. On the other hand I can run two cables feeding every alternated bulb and switch one off leaving the other on.

 

Considering that I'm building a covered wagon with some bleached muslim to stick to the ceilings what do you guys think is the better option?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Alexandre de Tolan]

In the quest for the best and cheapest solution to hang an overhead strip of some 6 to 8 bulbs in a covered wagon fashion to a celling I've narrowed my options and one of them is securing it with a couple of Avenger Suction Cups.

 

Do you guys think that it's safe to hang such a DIY kit with Suction Cups to a painted ceiling?

[Lance Soltys]

I don't think I would trust suction cups on paint, especially with something over people's heads. Would a unibar work for you?

 

Just to keep the thought-experiment going with the window dilemma, the perspective shift wouldn't be that bad if the images of buildings that you see throughout the window were far off in the distance. Parallax shifts reduce as the objects get farther away. So if the fake building appear to be way back in the distance, I don't think you would notice a lack of perspective shift, especially with curtains, soft-focus.

 

While on the subject, I thought I read that Mad Men used translates on the office sets, but those perspectives do shift (of course the buildings are supposed to be right across the street in those shots). I wonder if they use biggatures or something.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Yes, I'm struggling with the idea of hanging something on suction cups over people's heads also. Nonetheless, I've made an experiment of hanging an old (and somewhat heavy), 1K Fresnel to a suction cup today.

 

It was 2pm when I attached it and it remains very solid to this hour. Anyway, we are going to shoot for 10 days so it's certainly a bit different from just a few hours on a wall.

 

I suppose the only way to grab a unibar to a celling is to drill the celling right? I can't do that. This is an hotel room and we have to leave it just as we encountered it.

 

You certainly have a point regarding parallax. I have to figure out how much in a distance would have the nearest building to be and see if that's credible for what the Director wants. Thanks.

[Lance Soltys]

Also, when you were testing the 1K did you have it on? I'm thinking the heat from the light might also effect the suction cups (there could be expansion on the surface). As far as the unibar, I used the wrong word, I'm thinking of autopoles (should have googled before I spoke). Here is a link:

 

http://www.manfrotto.us/entertainment-autopoles

 

I'm thinking of using them myself for a shoot coming up where I would like to leave equipment in for a week or two, despite the fact that it's someone's living space. I figure this would keep things out of the way.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Autopoles yes. I've mentioned them in a previous post on this thread already and I've talked about them to the director.

 

The thing is that I've a bunch of suction cups from my car mount and those are ready to use. If we go the autopoles route I have none. The Director has to buy them and I suspect he won't do it.

 

I've talked with him to rent some but even if that doesn't work out I want to have a plan B ready to go.

[Daniel Satinoff]

A good option for cabling those overhead fixtures is with zip cord and plastic sockets. With an 800ASA camera you likely won't need a bunch of 75w bulbs. Might be better to plan on a bigger array of 15 or 25w bulbs so as to create a larger source that is more ambient. You're basically making custom sized christmas lights that you can put your own bulbs into. (If you're really strapped for cash, the large bulb christmas lights wouldn't be a bad idea either if you can find ones that are still incandescent.) If you had a bit more money I'd suggest going to somewhere like Litegear and getting strips of LEDs and doing that as they're dimmable, lightweight and low wattage.

Place a layer of diffusion over a couple of lines of those depending on how big you want your light to be (could you rent a 6x6 or 8x8 of something you like?) and you've got your ambient fixture. You can use the rest of that zip cord to make small extension cords that are easier to hide. You can make a few different circuits or one circuit and attach to a dimmer (or several). Those avenger suction cups should hold something like that no problem. Just use some A-clamps to hold the zip cord to the pin or whatever is on the suction cup. And just keep an eye on them between takes or scenes to make sure they're holding.

 

I basically did that with the guts of a couple of Kinos and it ends up being a great top source. You can then tack or tape up duvetyne, black wrap, visqueen or hell even black trash bags to tease it off of the walls. I like making the teaser out of small pieces rather than one big piece so it's easier to open up sections of the light depending on blocking and shots. And it's important to make sure it's longer than you think you'll need. Always easier to roll it up and clip it than to add another piece.

 

I think your best bet is simply to source from practicals and shape with china balls or even bare bulbs if you want something harder and use that toplight as ambiance.

 

Another option for that ambience is to get your hands on a hazer and just keep a nice level of haze in the room. The light from the practicals or any source that is in front of the lens will light up the atmosphere and provide you with some fill. It gives a much more interesting texture that just using a source but also takes more work to keep consistent. But that could be a cheaper option to look into. Also very much depends on the feel of the movie.

 

Hope there's something helpful in there.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Hi Daniel,

 

Yes. The initial idea was always to motivate the practicals with Chinese lanterns and use the top light not only as ambiance but always to give some separation from the background. I'm planning to use different color temperatures. Top light a bit more white to simulate bounced light from the table lamps of the white celling.

 

Haze is another matter and I'm not so keen to use it in this particular scenes. As you stated it would need constant supervision to make it consistent so I always planned to control lighting ratios with simple bounce cards/flags.

 

Zip cord is an idea that I have to consider. It needs less space but it isn't grounded.

 

At this time I'm searching for the best bulb alternative. I will most probably have to switch them on to regular wall sockets on the room and because of that I've asked the hotel to tell me which circuit breakers they have on the rooms but had no feedback until now.

 

Anyway, I guess they will be on the low side of things so I'm thinking low wattage CFLs on the ceilings but I really need the Amp figures to find how many bulbs I can switch on.