Lighting hotel room Crime scene on a shoestring

[Alexandre de Tolan]

No worries Alexandre.

Streaks and tips is a brand name of a temporary hair dye. It comes in an spray can and we'd often use it on bulbs, in black, to kill one side of them, or sprayed right where the filament would be to keep it from flaring or control intensity. It was great because it would wipe away clean off of the bulbs ;).

 

Thanks for sharing Adrian. I know that temporary hair dye here comes in cream. Have to search for something like that. The only places that comes to my mind are carnival specialised stores that sell fake/party hair dye.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Leonardo Brocato]

It's obvious but you need a gaffer to do something like that.

For me it's like a list of Faq in an indie movie :)

So..... i think to get cheaper as we can:
China balls are better than alzo you must buy, ikea china balls with a disk of 250 or 216 i skirt them with blak foil to be quick to modify and maybe open. Inside china balls you can put a bulb like 250w or photoflood 500w simply buying edison e27 screw socket and plug it with the plug you use. Like Adrian said you can use Cfl kinos but here in italy can't find, i ordered from Us and it's no cheap, 25$ each plus shipping. I used to do an imitation of Aura Soft with 3 of them the Cri is very good, the color temperature it's beautiful like kinos, metered at 5500 3200 exactly but i still prefer the potoflood 500w in china balls if i have enough power. Like kino said it's not so flicker free, i tested with red epic and with Canon 5d, with regular shutter you can use at 90° or 1/100 start to see not a flicker but 2 "red ghost strips" in the middle of the frame orinziontally, and see better at closer stops.
Manfrotto autopole are enough to rig china balls but frome the image i can't understand if there is an autopole long enough, don't use it full open. If there is no autopole long enough rent some heavy stand and rig the pole on the stand with a clamp like a crane and secure it with a rachet strip on the stand putting 3 or 4 sandbags. Put the stand out ot the field or behind the camera and boom it. For the dimmer you need to rent it or buy. Here in italy there is a coompany that makes good components it's Relco and has 1.5kw 3kw and 5kw 30euros 60euros and more. building a dimmer it's simple you buy the components put it in a sealed elettric connection box and put 2 plugs. If you need help with the assembling of the dimmer we can also skype it i can show you mines.

Dana dolly it's out of question, take a trip to rental houses of your city every city has a little rental house that has cheap handmade equipment, i have a version of dana dolly that costs me 300 euros of material plus wheels and a day of working at rental house with the iron technician. For a rental house it can be very easy to buid one. I can do another but i don't know in therms of shipping.

We are not so far so if you need help like skype or phone let me know.
and your city it's so beautiful.

 

Leonardo Brocato
Gaffer Roma Itay

[Phil Rhodes]

I like the high wattage CFLs. No objections to colour temperature. They're not terribly expensive.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Hi Leonardo,

 

A Gaffer would be great but this is a very low budget production. As I told Adrian, the Director even won't let me have a focus puller!

 

I had the idea of buying the Alzo drums to keep them for later jobs but perhaps you're right. With such a tight budget will be best to hang some small China-Balls instead. I'm afraid the ceiling isn't very high though.

 

Photoflood lamps are great but I don't have much experience with China-Balls. Aren't 500W too much for a paper diffuser? And which socket do you use with 500W? I assume it will be very hot after a while… And are you saying Photofloods are not flicker free? I was under the impression they were.

 

Thinking about it perhaps Photofloods are a good alternative for my base overhead lighting. If Photofloods are flicker free I can dim them and kill 2 birds with one stone. On one side I don't have the heating problem from a 500W lamp turned all way up and on the other one dimmed Photofloods will be warmer contributing to design that orange/reddish look.

 

You arouse my curiosity regarding the Dolly. I'm almost inclined to spend some bucks on the Kessler Shuttle Pod Mini. Can you share some photos of your Dolly?

 

Yes we are close but my city of origin is not Sevilla, it's Lisbon in Portugal but they are only a few Kms apart anyway :). Your city is lovely too. I was in Rome last year for some days. Very very hot last summer. I've stayed in Rome a few times but unfortunately every single time I visit your city I can't manage to visit the Sistine Chapel! There's always tons of people waiting in line and I end giving up every time :)

Edited February 8, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Leonardo Brocato]

No no

Photoflood are for sure dimmable like all tungsten bulbs, CFL ar not dimmable and the ikea paper lantern with 500w i've used many times, maybe after some days you need to replace the paper lantern but it's simple and cheap because after some days the heat crack the paper like a toast. if you worry about the red going up with the dim down choose to start with lower wattage like 250w so you need to dim down less.

if the ceiling is not so high the only choice for space is kino flo overhead (even with autopole) but it's also the ugliest in my opinion.

The dolly it's not mine now it's rented but i can arrange a pic soon.

The trick it's that it's so simple to build it's better to made by yourself and very cheaper, the biggest problem are tracks.

i can send you after if i find my drawings (simple not industrial) The one you suggest has very good price but not seems so hard duty and versatile but must be tested.

Next time in Rome call me i take you in Sistin Chapel and also rental houses that do good handmade :)

 

Leonardo Brocato

Gaffer Rome Italy

[Leonardo Brocato]

ops i forgot
for the bulbs over 60w you need an edison ceramic screw E27 socket easy to find it's the normal tipe of edison house lamp but it's made in ceramic to resist heat

 

:)

 

Leonardo Brocato

Gaffer Rome Italy

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Hi Leonardo,

 

Thanks for your tips. Don't forget to share your dolly once you have it with you. I'm curious.

 

When in Rome I certainly ask for your advice :) Hotels are very expensive there and if you know some cheap accommodation I'll be eternally grateful. Last time I've stayed about 2 streets down the central train terminal in the cheapest Hotel I could find but nonetheless a bit expensive!

[Alexandre de Tolan]

I'm evaluating my options about rigging on overhead light with such a low celling and I'm considering going the DIY route here.

 

I'm thinking of a row of 150W Photoflood lamps screwed into a strip of some light material (since I have to fix this without any screw to the celling), probably some plastic strip where I can attach some diffusion fabric in a covered wagon fashion.

 

I'm having some trouble finding e27 batten fixing plastic/ceramic holders that holds more than 60W though. I'm under the impression that Photofloods are normally rated at double their respective power (one 150W bulb corresponds to a normal 75W lamp. Can anyone confirm this?).

 

Any other suggestion to achieve this would be very appreciated. Thanks.

[Freya Black]

Interesting thread. Especially the streaks and tips! I never heard of that one before! :)

 

I'm definitely thinking a slider of some kind might be the way to go. I'm imagining it's a very small space in which to be laying track and in a situation like this you need to think about what is practical.

 

As to the window, in the states this kind of thing is often done with translites:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translight

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duratrans

 

It's something I would love to experiment with, but it's not common here in Europe, which I'm guessing is why Adrian didn't mention it by name but tried to describe the process. Maybe if you read up on it tho, it will be easier to make something similar.

 

Coincidentally Vittorio Storaro is from Italy and has worked with translites a fair bit in the past. You may have heard of him. ;)

I met him recently and meant to quiz him on the very subject but then, in the heat of the moment, I forgot all about it. I think because I got caught up in the great talk he did which distracted me. ;)

 

...Anyway he uses huge translites on Dune so it's worth checking out the behind the scenes video on the DVD if you find yourself interested in translites. I was impressed with how much he got away with it and made it work!

 

Usually it's just used for skylines on windows. The kind of thing you are looking to do basically.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

I'm evaluating my options about rigging on overhead light with such a low celling and I'm considering going the DIY route here.

 

I'm thinking of a row of 150W Photoflood lamps screwed into a strip of some light material (since I have to fix this without any screw to the celling), probably some plastic strip where I can attach some diffusion fabric in a covered wagon fashion.

 

I'm having some trouble finding e27 batten fixing plastic/ceramic holders that holds more than 60W though. I'm under the impression that Photofloods are normally rated at double their respective power (one 150W bulb corresponds to a normal 75W lamp. Can anyone confirm this?).

 

Any other suggestion to achieve this would be very appreciated. Thanks.

 

Heres a thread on this subject that I thought might be helpful:

 

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=6301

 

You definitely don't want plastic holders for this! Only ceramic ones.

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

Although to be fair the translites in Dune looked like *&£$. I can only hope they were going for some sort of stylised appearance.

 

Don't overlook the possibility of video or even slide projection. Renting a projector and screen for however long may be cheaper than the (gigantic) cost of a translite. Slide projection can be very cheap, if you can deal with the limited output of some slide projectors, and if you can find somewhere that'll zap an image file out to a slide.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Oh I know me some translites-- but real ones are very expensive ;)

[Freya Black]

Although to be fair the translites in Dune looked like *&£$. I can only hope they were going for some sort of stylised appearance.

 

Don't overlook the possibility of video or even slide projection. Renting a projector and screen for however long may be cheaper than the (gigantic) cost of a translite. Slide projection can be very cheap, if you can deal with the limited output of some slide projectors, and if you can find somewhere that'll zap an image file out to a slide.

 

Well I wasn't expecting the translites to look great, the surprising thing was how often he got away with them. There were definitely a few shots that looked completely hoaky but a lot of the time they worked somewhat like matte paintings might work.

I mean the whole thing was a really low budget TV series but I thought much of it worked really well in spite of the budget constraints. Dune on a TV budget was kind of a mad idea to start with but I felt they mostly pulled it off.

 

Having said that I've noticed it looks a lot worse seeing it on flat panel LCD displays than it did on a CRT. It's one of those things that seems to translate especially poorly.

 

The projection idea is a really good one! Sadly I suspect they won't have room for back projection but I thought it was one of the things about Oblivion that worked really well.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Oh I know me some translites-- but real ones are very expensive ;)

 

I imagined you would be able to rent used translites out there. I seem to remember someone mentioning using off the shelf translites before?

 

Wasn't suggesting you didn't know about them, clearly you were describing something like a home made version. :) Obviously you were aware of the idea. I just assumed you knew we wouldn't have much of them this side of the pond.

 

I Was just linking to some details for the original poster. Thought it might help them reverse engineer something.

 

Freya

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I know there are some off of the shelf ones-- some studios have them. I haven't actually,though, seen them in La, but then again I haven't yet needed to look. Back across the Mississippi I used a studio that had 4 or 5 of them hanging like drop cloth ready to be pulled across the set.

[Mark Dunn]

Photofloods are normally rated at double their respective power (one 150W bulb corresponds to a normal 75W lamp. Can anyone confirm this?).

Photofloods produce much more light than an ordinary tungsten bulb and get much hotter, which is why you must use a ceramic holder if you want to leave them on for more than a few minutes. They come in 275 and 500W and only burn for a few hours.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Interesting thread. Especially the streaks and tips! I never heard of that one before! :)

 

I'm definitely thinking a slider of some kind might be the way to go. I'm imagining it's a very small space in which to be laying track and in a situation like this you need to think about what is practical.

 

As to the window, in the states this kind of thing is often done with translites:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translight

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duratrans

 

It's something I would love to experiment with, but it's not common here in Europe, which I'm guessing is why Adrian didn't mention it by name but tried to describe the process. Maybe if you read up on it tho, it will be easier to make something similar.

 

Coincidentally Vittorio Storaro is from Italy and has worked with translites a fair bit in the past. You may have heard of him. ;)

I met him recently and meant to quiz him on the very subject but then, in the heat of the moment, I forgot all about it. I think because I got caught up in the great talk he did which distracted me. ;)

 

...Anyway he uses huge translites on Dune so it's worth checking out the behind the scenes video on the DVD if you find yourself interested in translites. I was impressed with how much he got away with it and made it work!

 

Usually it's just used for skylines on windows. The kind of thing you are looking to do basically.

 

Freya

 

Hi Freya,

 

We are going to shoot on a hotel room 20 floors above floor so no Translite whatsoever. That was my first option if the Director were able to find something on the floor that we could rig a Translite outside the room.

 

 

 

Heres a thread on this subject that I thought might be helpful:

 

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=6301

 

You definitely don't want plastic holders for this! Only ceramic ones.

 

Freya

 

Thanks for the link :)

 

 

Although to be fair the translites in Dune looked like *&£$. I can only hope they were going for some sort of stylised appearance.

 

Don't overlook the possibility of video or even slide projection. Renting a projector and screen for however long may be cheaper than the (gigantic) cost of a translite. Slide projection can be very cheap, if you can deal with the limited output of some slide projectors, and if you can find somewhere that'll zap an image file out to a slide.

 

 

Hi Phil,

Video or Slide projection is out of the question also for the reason I've wrote above. Besides that, this is a very very low budget feature and we don't have the means to overcome this within the budget on a room 20 floors above ground.

 

I've thought about making an "aquarium" that could fit against the window with it's exactly dimensions, with a printed backlighted photo and anti-reflective glass but I gave up a minute after when I realized that the perspective would be odd when changing camera angles with the window on shot.

 

I think I'll gave up from having NYC on a European hotel room :(

 

 

Photofloods produce much more light than an ordinary tungsten bulb and get much hotter, which is why you must use a ceramic holder if you want to leave them on for more than a few minutes. They come in 275 and 500W and only burn for a few hours.

 

Hi Mark,

Any other suggestion to replace those short-lived Photofloods with something that can be attached to a E27 socket (or similar), can be dimmed and puts a decent light output with constant color temperature on a tight budget?

 

Thank you all for keeping this thread alive with such valuable information!

Edited February 10, 2014 by Alexandre de Tolan

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Well if you have curtains in the frame on the window-- you can get away with a lot. I would try just getting a print out of the NY skyline on some paper, and putting it out there behind the curtains-- sheer curtains-- and it should sell especially if it's out of focus.

 

Another trick would be with 3M material-- I forget the name of it off of hand-- but it's front projection material, highly reflective on a direct angle-- from which you could project with a small low powered Pico projector type thing, a movie loop of NY.

 

Green screen is another option- just put track marks on it and post should be able to handle it.

[Alexandre de Tolan]

Well if you have curtains in the frame on the window-- you can get away with a lot. I would try just getting a print out of the NY skyline on some paper, and putting it out there behind the curtains-- sheer curtains-- and it should sell especially if it's out of focus.

 

Another trick would be with 3M material-- I forget the name of it off of hand-- but it's front projection material, highly reflective on a direct angle-- from which you could project with a small low powered Pico projector type thing, a movie loop of NY.

 

Green screen is another option- just put track marks on it and post should be able to handle it.

 

Hi Adrian. I think I'll do some tests with your first suggestion and see how it goes.

[Miguel Angel]

After reading all the thread it seems to me that your movie looks like fun!

 

What hotel are you shooting at if you don't mind me asking? you could get an interesting view from the window with some other rooms if you are able to pick one.

 

If you want to have something interesting in the window you could use translucent or transparent led stripes all on the window so you can choose when to turn them on, the color you want to have or even better, which one you want to use for the angle you are shooting.

I've seen these transparent led stripes in Madrid in Calle Barquillo but I don't know if you will be able to get them in Sevilla.

 

Have you thought about using mirrors or reflections to create the skylight?

 

Regarding your question about color separation, with a room as good as that one, why don't you place a tube or a fixture with a different color temperature inside the room?

I can see only one photo but providing you have the bed in the part I don't see and you have a table in between, you might want to use some different colors for lighting the bed, maybe single fluorescent tubes that you can place above the bed as a part of the set?

 

If everything has to be red red, you could use those elements to give a good sense of depth and they will help you create the separation you're looking for, in fact, you could use a red kinoflo tube and over expose it completely so you have something different? :)

You might want to talk with the director about being absolutely unrealistic when lighting this feature as it looks like the script might give you room to be as creative as you want to be with your photography.

 

For example, if you have a big lamp hanging from the ceiling you could use that lamp to place a 1K just pointing down to the floor so you have a very hard light to create contrast, use some smoke and there you go!

 

:)

[Freya Black]

Well if you have curtains in the frame on the window-- you can get away with a lot. I would try just getting a print out of the NY skyline on some paper, and putting it out there behind the curtains-- sheer curtains-- and it should sell especially if it's out of focus.

 

This was more what I was meaning although it's going to be hard to backlight it at night with so little space between the translite and the window. Probably easier to just use paper and front light it and try and keep it out of focus like Adrian suggests.

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

There must be a market for an electroluminescent backlit system for very low depth scenarios like this...

 

Probably have to cost a fortune given that you'd be trimming lots of EL panel to suit windows.

[Miguel Angel]

There is something similar Phil.

 

Take a look at this, you might find it interesting.

 

 

Kindest regards.

[Lance Soltys]

I first thought of front projection too. The only problem is it's expensive. The material, called Scotchlite, goes for around $700 for 2 x 3 meters, I think. Then you'd need a high quality beam-splitter to go in front of the lens (the projector then shoots into the beam-splitter, opposite the camera lens, so they are on the same axis). Too bad they don't rent set-ups for this. The plus side is the projector could be pretty cheap since it doesn't really need to be very bright, and those Picos that Adrian suggested are small enough they could go anywhere. I'm guessing all that will be cost prohibitive though.

 

How about heavy ND on the windows to let a little "blue moonlight" (actually gelled down daylight) creep in. This might be totally crazy, but you might be able to build a craftboard or even cardboard skyline with windows cut out and then put LED's behind it. The whole thing might only be 2-3" thick, something like a big, weird shaped pizza box (You'd need sides and a back to the thing to keep the LED's from spilling all over, and you could coat the inside back of the box with tin-foil to spread the light out). As long as it's really out-of-focus with sheer curtains in front, it might work. You could even gel he little window cut-outs to give different color lights.

 

Or, this could all look totally cheesy. Might be something to try though. It wouldn't be too expensive.

[Phil Rhodes]

All of these ideas are good but will suffer the issue that they can only be shot from one angle, or you'll see the trick. Might be OK for an establisher or very out of focus in an over-the-shoulder sort of situation.

 

Consider LEDs (fairy lights, maybe) for spots of light in the "city".

 

P