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Targeting the bootleggers, great news!


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Wholeheartedly agree.

 

A single dollar may be too low a fee for recent or upscale titles, but in principle this sounds like just the right way to go. I think it will soon be shown that this was a massive missed opportunity for several years.

 

The objection is that it will facilitate piracy.

 

It will.

 

However, I suspect it'll make so much money that the losses to piracy will pale into insignificance. It's already easy to pirate films. It can hardly get much easier.

 

P

Oh, rubbish; iTunes is a rank, miserable failure. How could ANYBODY expect to make any money doing what they're doing?

Still, Richard must find it gratifying that, despite the countless thousands of hopelessly deceived artists who have allowed, no, prostituted, the precious fruits of their blood, sweat and moral turpitude into the dark satanic mills of legal paid download, there are still a few noble, incorruptible soldiers of the battle for artistic excellence and integrity, who to this day, refuse to allow their precious intellectual property to be sullied in this unwholesome, unseemly and artistically bankrupt manner!

 

The fact that just about all of their works can be downloaded for free and probably more conveniently, from pirate sites, does nothing to erode the moral high ground that we can only stand in awe of!

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Yes.

 

R,

Hmmm... well I'm sure there are plenty of Hollywood bigwigs who'd be delighted to hear from you. Clearly you're wasting your time making low budget movies about dogs.

 

It's rather telling that very few DVDs of US-made movies have any of those tedious anti-piracy "micro feature-ettes" at the start any more. They were always an exercise in corporate lunacy: If you were seeing them, then the overwhelming likelihood was that you were watching a legal copy; if you weren't seeing them, it most likely was not!

 

For some bizarre reason Australian distributors still seem to think they are a good idea. Yet most Australian productions have an unbeatable anti-piracy mechanism: The films are such crap, nobody would bother :rolleyes:

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Netflix doesn't have a particularly spectacular selection outside the US, which makes a lot less attractive at any price, and the Apple service is absolutely hidebound by swingeing restrictions, but I don't think that the problems of individual services are really at the core of this issue. I don't think there's any reason to make it any more difficult than the BBC's iplayer, which is most certainly a vector for piracy (software to download unencrypted files directly from it is trivially available) but not one that anyone seems to consider unsustainable on that basis.

 

Exactly what should be charged for these services is a bit of a guessing game at this point, although Valve's experience with the Steam online distribution system for video games would seem relevant. They've been so astoundingly successful with periodic sales at knockdown prices that some games developers have been almost visibly torn between the desire to go on making all that money, and the desire for it not to become normal that a video game costs $5. That's a problem, but that's a very good problem to have, and it does make it clear that low prices can make more money overall.

 

I wouldn't sign up for a flat-fee service on the basis that whole months probably go by when I don't watch a movie. I also wouldn't be interested in any service that unnecessarily restricted the devices I could view the material on (which, for instance, iplayer does, if only quite trivially).

 

Really, in a world where paypal exists, does this need to be difficult?

 

P

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Hmmm... well I'm sure there are plenty of Hollywood bigwigs who'd be delighted to hear from you. Clearly you're wasting your time making low budget movies about dogs.

 

Say what you want, I've accomplished more in this business than you ever will.

 

R,

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I hear today on wired.com that Amazon may well be bringing out a settop box for tv and movie streaming as well-- perhaps tied with amazon prime.. which perhaps, maybe will take down some more hurdles since all the media is either why you'd sign up (prime is cheaper than netflix's lowest tiered plan) or an added benefit to 2 day shipping.

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Say what you want, I've accomplished more in this business than you ever will.

 

R,

Sh!t...it IS Jim Jannard.... Well I'll be buggered....

Well ... ahem ... OK, I'll say that Jim Jannard has accomplished far more than the rest of put together a thousand times over, and....

Sorry, what were we talking about again....?

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Although I think a subscription model can work great for actually getting content produced (look at high-end cable, or the better parts of the BBC), I'm not so sure the margins for a lot of content on the likes of Netflix really add up financially (at least not from what I've heard - we don't have netflix down here to refer to).

 

I really think the 'app' model is the way to go - no cost, or impediment to browsing or accessing the content, you just pick what you want to watch and click the 'buy' (or in the case of the streaming model, 'rent') button. It's easy, it's universal, and it puts both choice and access in the hands of consumers (which is precisely where it should be if you want people to buy or rent things).

 

If the cost is low enough to entice the masses then I strongly believe that, all of a sudden, thousands of people who are currently downloading small pirated productions (because they either can't or don't go to the DVD store anymore - so don't have access to affordable rentals the way they used to) will have a quick, simple way to access content they're interested in.

 

We don't have to break new ground here, we just need to adopt the digital delivery model that works best - and costs need to fall (the same way 'app' prices are a fraction of what proper 'software' used to cost). That's the new digital paradigm - Low-cost. High-volume. Build it, and they'll come.

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Well ... ahem ... OK, I'll say that Jim Jannard has accomplished far more than the rest of put together a thousand times over, and....

 

And Jim would have a very valid point in that regard.

 

R,

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What the hell does Jim Jannard or what anyone on here has or hasn't shot have to do with people essentially taking from all of us as a whole?

 

Nothing, but certain people always have to bring the, "you're not Steven Spielberg" into the argument. Not mentioning any names.

 

R,

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This was all taking me forever to read so I skipped a lot, but, has anyone brought up paintings or photography?

 

Photographers put their work up on sites for free. You can google image search most paintings. Is that piracy?

 

People still go to pay to see things in a gallery, to have it hanging on their wall, just like I'll still pay for a DVD/BluRay because I like it in a collection that I don't have to wonder if it'll disappear from netflix, and maybe have some extra features that I'll never watch. Otherwise I have Netflix, which, hopefully that system can continue to be viable. And people get paid properly from it.

 

I don't advocate piracy really, I maybe grabbed a couple movies years ago, but in all honesty, it's a pain to watch a movie at my computer. And I'm too lazy to convert it a hundred times from whatever nonsense form it is online just so I can pop it onto my Apple TV or put it on a USB drive or can my bluray player even do that? I can't be bothered.

 

Basically, people will still pay for a theatre experience, at least the people the markets should be going after. And, maybe this will incentivize producers to actually think about what they're making instead of making 100 Spiderman reboots.

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IN terms of painting and photography-- yes it is. If the artist willingly put it up for free, that is a different story. Hell if they even willingly posted it up on their facebook I could say it's a diff story since online posting terms of service generally assign away one's rights. But this is not what we are talking about in the least. Consequently, most artists are either dead, or if their work has been photographed-- have in some way allowed for that to happen. I don't see Monet coming to sue me anytime soon.

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Nothing, but certain people always have to bring the, "you're not Steven Spielberg" into the argument. Not mentioning any names.

 

R,

Ah yes - vague implications of dastardly (and untraceable) statements by people whose names don't actually get mentioned.

Like people saying 'It's a scam'; but the only references that can ever be found to that phrase turn out to be people claiming we said it, or other people denying we ever said it.

So Kemosabe, who are these "Certain People" and when did they say that?

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Reuel, sorry, but that is a silly silly argument.

 

And what about independent producers who make films that never get a theatrical release? DVD sales are critical to the recoupment in every case. These are the films that 90% of the people on this forum work on! We only have 2-3 people here that work on movies like....The Avengers with any regularity.

 

R,

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Reuel, sorry, but that is a silly silly argument.

 

And what about independent producers who make films that never get a theatrical release? DVD sales are critical to the recoupment in every case. These are the films that 90% of the people on this forum work on! We only have 2-3 people here that work on movies like....The Avengers with any regularity.

 

R,

Now that I can understand. But the majority of people don't download indie films.
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And what about independent producers who make films that never get a theatrical release?

 

Good question.

 

The biggest copyright lobbyists ever were, under Valenti, and probably still are the MPAA. I don't think they, or other prominent organisations who lobby in this area, care very much about - say - you. They have the money to bring legal action in an attempt to extract preposterous fees from people. You, I suspect, don't, at least not on anything like the same scale. They have the resources to keep your films out of Canadian cinemas. These people are the reason you don't get theatrical releases. These people are the reason you - and to an even more crippling extent I - simply don't have access to the free market economy that is supposed to make the world work.

 

What you're actually doing here is to align yourself with a lobby which is very certainly doing you as a business far more harm than piracy. It's a disturbingly common misconception that attempting to play the high-end game will gain you access to the high end. It won't. Rich conservatives do not want you in their club, because every new member dilutes the resources available to incumbents. Your attempts to be like them will not work, and the machinery they construct to maintain their dominance will not assist you.

 

P

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In Switzerland it is legal to download Music and Movies for your own collection. You are not allowed to redupload them nor distribut them. I know some Folks having 10 Harddisk, each 4TB vull of Movies, TV Shows etc...

My perosnal oppinion? I'm not happy. If i do some hard work, working 20 day on a set, spend tousands of $$$ just to find out some little schoolboy STOLE my work for fre, i^ll sure would kick his ass.

But reality unfortunately looks quet different.

Just 2 weeks ago a guy with a black magic in a movie theatre was caught with a 4000$ lense on it. camera was confiscated and then destroyed. Man what a laugh i had :D

Edited by Randy J Tomlinson
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Imagine if just once, a studio took the $100million they were going to blow on a big budget feature, and they found 100 promising films from younger filmmakers and gave them each $1 million. Don't you think that would be immensely liberating and fuel the creation of some great new content? Sometimes I just don't get it. You can waste millions on a box office bomb, but you can't take a risk on someone who's asking for less than 1/10th of the money and has new ideas...

You do realize that virtually every major studio already does that. It's called the micro-budget division and generally speaking, the budget for the division is under 75 mil. the individual films are under 1.5 mil. some WAY under! The Weinsteins started the trend with "Project Greenllight" (although for some reason, I want to say Spielberg and Lucas were involved)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Greenlight

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&ved=0CFwQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscreenrant.com%2Fparamount-introducing-micro-budget-branch-insurge-pictures-mikee-48355%2F&ei=fHEOU_eBIsL4yQGoh4DQCw&usg=AFQjCNEo3fksT704BN8V8FT2TK90dH5KvA

 

http://entertainment.time.com/2013/07/31/rise-of-the-zombeavers-hollywood-sinks-its-teeth-into-the-micro-budget-movie/

 

But even way before that they were called B Movies.

Edited by James Steven Beverly
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The way I look at it, if you own a business (and a production company is a business), people are gonna steal from you. It's human nature and in our collective history, part of survival. The best you can do is try to limit the amount of theft you incur so why is everyone debating this like it's something new. Same old dog, different fleas. I've seen films on Youtube that are new releases out up in the free section. They are on there for a few days then are removed and I can't help but wonder if the studio isn't allowing this to help create buzz. A few 100K see the pic, tell their friends and wham, sales shoot up. it's all a game or haven't you been paying attention to corporate America lately?

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I honestly question how many, if any, filmmakers, or people in "the arts" actually have "new ideas."

Apparently you've actually WATCHED a lot of these no-budget, D5, or is it Black Magic now, "film maker's" opuses. Ah, what the Hell, it's hard enough to make any movie well so why am I raggin' . I will say the "Democratization" of the film industry hasn't lived up to the hype.

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Now that I can understand. But the majority of people don't download indie films.

True, the majority don't, the argument can be made that people sometimes pirate indie films due to a lack of access to actually view them. Indie films often suffer from poor distribution. Hal Hartley, when asked about fans uploading Trust to Youtube said "I don't care about pirating. I care about quality" Meaning he didn't want fans to see the film in poor resolution etc. Of course he'd prefer people buy the film but at the time he couldn't even sell it to them. The main reason it was uploaded was cause the company that owned the film wouldn't sell him back the rights to distribute and it was out of print. So even the filmmaker couldn't get it out to an american audience.

 

There are other cases like that where the standard distribution model fails the filmmaker because of companies going under licenses changing hands or netflix etc refusing to stream the actual unedited version of an out of print movie that fans want to see etc. Political censorship in some countries etc.

 

I agree with Mark that we need an app like distribution model. I can stream Gravity over Amazon for $4,99 That's more than it would have cost me to rent it from Blockbuster back in the day. The pricing for digital streaming is all wrong and definitely part of the problem.

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