Blue TV flicker

[Christopher Garland]

I'm shooting a s16 short film on fuji 500D. I want to achieve a blue tv flicker effect on the actor using either 650w or 300w tungsten lights w/ flicker box. I know I'll be needing to gel the lights w/ ctb's but what grade ctb will exceed the compensation needed to convert to daylight balance? Does this make any sense? By the way I will be finishing in telecine, no print for me. Let me know what you think.

[David Mullen ASC]

I'm shooting a s16 short film on fuji 500D.  I want to achieve a blue tv flicker effect on the actor using either 650w or 300w tungsten lights w/ flicker box.  I know I'll be needing to gel the lights w/ ctb's but what grade ctb will exceed the compensation needed to convert to daylight balance?  Does this make any sense?  By the way I will be finishing in telecine, no print for me.  Let me know what you think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since this is a TV set effect, you can make the light as cold & blue as you want -- you don't have to exactly match a TV set's true color temperature, especially since in real life, the color is affected by what's on-screen and isn't perceived as being very blue. So a Full CTB would be fine for a blue-ish effect, or even less blue.

[Guest Tim van der Linden]

Actually, since he's using tungsten lights on daylight film, he'll probably want to use something more to the effect of a double CTB, or basically anything heavier than full CTB.

[Stuart Brereton]

I'd say go with 1/2 CTB, and instead of a flicker box use two lamps on dimmers. I saw a DP I was assisting do this years ago, and I've used it ever since. TV's don't flicker. Their brightness varies, but the variations in brightness are not actually that great and don't happen that fast. Using two 650w, both on dimmers, and altering their respective brightness will give you a more realistic effect.

I would usually underexpose a TV effect by 1 - 1.5 stops.

 

Stuart.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Stuart Brereton

[David Mullen ASC]

Actually, since he's using tungsten lights on daylight film, he'll probably want to use something more to the effect of a double CTB, or basically anything heavier than full CTB.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Brings up the issue of color balance -- if this is a night interior, then why use 500D stock? And if this is a day interior, why would there be a flicker effect from a TV and why would it be blue? A TV only looks blue-ish IN COMPARISON to tungsten practicals in the room, so in this case, Full CTB would be enough to create a difference between the TV light and any tungsten practicals, although on 500D stock, the TV light would be white and the practicals very orange. However, one could then correct it closer to tungsten balance, making the TV light look bluer.

[Stuart Brereton]

Sorry,

 

just noticed that you're shooting daylight stock. Is your scene a day interior? If so, a TV effect would be minimal.

 

The "how blue is TV" question is kinda like that "how blue is moonlight" question"

 

Stuart

Edited April 22, 2005 by Stuart Brereton

[Christopher Garland]

Thanks to everyone for quick feedback on my post. The scene is going to be a night interior, the reason that I'm using 500D is because we only have the budget for one stock and this scene isn't going to take up a full 400 feet. I may suggest to the director that we need to get some tungsten stock, which will make this problem much easier to handle. I'm very interested in the idea of using two 650w and two dimmers, thanks for the suggestion. As far as the blue I think I'm going to go light on it and not make it as pronounced, which should be easy if I can get some tungsten stock. Again thanks to everyone for the help.

 

- Chris

[Guest Tim van der Linden]

A TV only looks blue-ish IN COMPARISON to tungsten practicals in the room, so in this case, Full CTB would be enough to create a difference between the TV light and any tungsten practicals, although on 500D stock, the TV light would be white and the practicals very orange. However, one could then correct it closer to tungsten balance, making the TV light look bluer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is a good point, I suppose I went into this thread assuming it was a night interior since I've never seen the blue tv flicker look in any other situation that I can think of.

 

This also brings up the issue of what is programmed into audiences' (and filmmakers') heads on what is "supposed" to look a certain way. Maybe this is the chance to try something different and go with a different color, experiment. Of course then you run into the problem that the audience might say "hey, where's that green/purple/whatever color you choose light coming from?"

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Just did this in a commercial on 650W with double CTB on a flickering dimmer. Always feel a bit hokey to me and when I came back from watching the film The Assasination of Richard Nixon shot by Lubezki, I kicked myself for not doing it his way: a steady, non-flickering cyan source only. Brilliant in its simplicity. TV sets don't really flicker, they change images, which isn't the same thing. Besides, the sound sells it more - you don't have to be overtly obvious - the audience gets it's a TV anyway.

 

Well, you learn. :P

[David Mullen ASC]

You also have to consider if there will be a cut to what's actually on the TV set. It doesn't make much sense to have a very blue, overly-flickering light if the reverse angle has a color-corrected, non-flickering, TV image. In that case, a pale blue light that barely flickers -- more shifts & dims occasionally, as if images were moving and cutting on the TV -- would intercut better. I had such a scene in "Akeelah" and I used a 1/2 CTB for the TV light so that it would read as cooler than the room's tungstens but not overly blue, and the flicker effect was subtle -- because I knew we'd be shooting an insert of the TV footage and it would look normal.