Do labs usually make things right when they goof?

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I had mentioned in a previous thread that Spectra sent me my HD transfer in the form of a Prores 422 HQ file that wouldn't open on my system. Thinking it was my fault (and also because Spectra says they "cannot take responsibility for PC users who cannot open or edit their footage") due to a codec issue or something, I went and purchased a Mac to see once and for all if it really was my fault. This was a new Mac from the store and I installed the trial of Final Cut Pro X (which I know should be able to open these files since this is essentially what Prores was made for) and it does not recognize the file.

 

Suffice to say I will be taking the Mac back since I found out what I needed to know.

 

But my question is...will Spectra (or labs in general) accept responsibility for their mistake? I paid $150 for this scan (just a simple 100' roll) so I could test my camera but also get my workflow in order. This is obviously not my fault so it seems right that Spectra will make this right.

 

Anyone have any experience with if labs will fix their mistakes or shift blame and I'll have to eat the cost (and spread bad PR along the way?)

[Chris Burke]

Any business should make good on a defective product or service, they want you to come back. The file may be corrupted or some such thing cuz ProRes is usually quite a reliable codec. I would ask for an uncompressed 10 bit file, that should trans-code to anything you want.

[Chris Millar]

>>off topic alert<<

 

It's not exactly good business practise or I guess 'nice' to purchase something just to use it for half a day then return it either.

 

Perhaps I'm peculiar in this?

 

I've noticed this practise when visiting USA on a few occasions. A chain electronics store I bought a hard disk from had a specific returns queue that had more floor/line space allocated to it than the purchasing queue - and lo and behold, it was full. If memory serves me correctly, it was lined with huge bags of M&M's in case you were so prompted to make an impulse returning your product, er, 'purchase' - i.e. your refund would be reduced.

 

Obviously not like this everywhere in the states, and examples can be found elsewhere... Just, in my opinion, the tendency is a bit more pronounced.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

>>off topic alert<<

 

It's not exactly good business practise or I guess 'nice' to purchase something just to use it for half a day then return it either.

 

Perhaps I'm peculiar in this?

Not that I owe you an explanation on this but I intended to keep it if the file worked as I assumed I would need it for my workflow with them. But it still didnt work and I have moved on to wanting to edit via PC with Avid since I have been playing around with 2k scans on the internet and I like the flow of working with TIFF files instead.

 

But overall, I would appreciate if you could either 1) help me with my issue or 2) keep your issues of morality to yourself.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I would ask for an uncompressed 10 bit file, that should trans-code to anything you want.

I would like this but it would be a 20 GB file and the deal I got was only on Disc, not on hard drive.

[Giray Izcan]

Google software to convert Mac files to windows, so this way, you can open Mac based files on your pc. I worked with Spectra, I had to do that.

[Chris Millar]

my question is...will Spectra (or labs in general) accept responsibility for their mistake?

 

In lieu of not keeping your issues with morality to yourself I'd suggest asking them that question ;)

[Matthew W. Phillips]

 

In lieu of not keeping your issues with morality to yourself I'd suggest asking them that question ;)

What is your purpose on this thread again? What I do as far as returning a computer has nothing to do with whether a lab produces what they promise. The film community is small so we benefit from knowing who gives good service and who doesn't. Also, I was inquiring into if anyone else had problems with them or someone else and how it is generally handled.

 

I reiterate the point that if you cannot be helpful on the thread I started, please refrain from busting my chops because it is uncalled for and it makes you look like a donkey.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Google software to convert Mac files to windows, so this way, you can open Mac based files on your pc. I worked with Spectra, I had to do that.

Giray, I tried that but nothing recognizes this file...not even ffmpeg.

[Giray Izcan]

Matthew,

I remember trying a few times to open files even with that software. I had to hit refresh button a few times, restart my pc etc. It Mau be kind of tricky. I guess give them a call tomorrow, and try to get an answer from them. Spectra produces pretty decent results imho. Bu the way, regarding Chris, I agree with you. It's completely irrelevant, probably another Yank hating guy from wherever that bashes on America. I would just ignore him, and would let him bark I suppose. Maybe eventually he would just get the point, and stop.

[Chris Millar]

Alright, to answer your question directly - and as Chris has already pointed out:

 

In my experience, labs do usually make things right when they goof.

 

Secondly, I have no 'purpose' other than, I guess, just shooting the breeze - being 'forum-ey'...

 

My advice is: you ask them about your issue directly.

 

And furthermore, ask yourself (and please don't feel compelled to report back the answer): Did you really need to apply moral leverage of your own, in public, to get Giray or whoever from Spectra to chime in?

 

;)

[Giray Izcan]

From Spectra? That makes a lot of sense, haha.

[Chris Millar]

Giray,

 

Not a yank hater.

 

But yeah, fair enough - sorry to drag it this way so I'm outta this thread.

 

and "Worked with Spectra" can sometimes be interpreted as well, with, as in alongside, same vested interests ...

Edited May 19, 2014 by Chris Millar

[Giray Izcan]

Chris,

It's ok. I'm sorry. No reason to elevate the argument. I apologize if I offended you.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Matthew,

I remember trying a few times to open files even with that software. I had to hit refresh button a few times, restart my pc etc. It Mau be kind of tricky. I guess give them a call tomorrow, and try to get an answer from them. Spectra produces pretty decent results imho. Bu the way, regarding Chris, I agree with you. It's completely irrelevant, probably another Yank hating guy from wherever that bashes on America. I would just ignore him, and would let him bark I suppose. Maybe eventually he would just get the point, and stop.

I did try to open it using FCP which I cannot understand why it wouldnt work. That is what leads me to believe there is something wrong with the file. I will call Spectra tomorrow.

 

I realize that I should give them the chance to make it right, and I am. I am not angry about this but am a bit disappointed. I paid for 400' minimum for 100' processing to avoid piggybacking which took 3 weeks the first time. I did this so I could get my scan back to verify that my camera is fixed before the shoot. This is just another delay and that is why I am frustrated. I guess one is not entitled the luxury of ever being frustrated.

[Giray Izcan]

Instead of Spectra, you can get 2k scans at Cinelab for the price of HD telecine from Spectra.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Instead of Spectra, you can get 2k scans at Cinelab for the price of HD telecine from Spectra.

Yeah, I need to talk to Rob about that.

[Giray Izcan]

Rob is way cool. Probably, one of the moat indie-friendly guys out there. Or, do photochemical finish. Photochemical finish has better blacks for sure.

[Brian Drysdale]

You should contact the lab if there's an issue. An editor friend who had a lot of experience dealing with top UK labs says that although they could "lie" i.e try to put the blame somewhere else at times, but in the end, if something is their fault they would usually make good. This could easily have involved the cost of making a new print which was an out of pocket expense to the lab. More complex for a lab would be some issue in developing the negative and any remedial work that may be involved.

 

I can't see a lab refusing to do another transfer run because the previous file they sent was corrupted. It's something that will occasionally happen and should be a part of their quality assurance, although things do slip through.

 

Labs are usually helpful and i suspect these days are trying to be well in with all customers.

[Dirk DeJonghe]

If you received a Prores file on a DVD ask for another copy of the file on another disk or stick. Nobody transfers Prores directly to DVD so they probably still have it on their computer somewhere. We usually keep transfers(simple rushes) for at least a month before erasing. What happens all the time: customer receives a Mac formatted Hard disk as requested by editor. Producer puts it on his Win computer. Computer says: "disk is not formatted do you want to format yes/no?"

You can imagine what happens in some cases; obviously not possible on a dvd.

[Phil Rhodes]

It isn't a windows or mac thing anyway - it's just a duff DVD, as far as I can tell. Windows PCs are perfectly capable of reading (and, now, with third-party code, writing) ProRes.

 

Just contact them. I can't imagine they won't sort it out.

 

P

[Freya Black]

Yeah drop them a line and have a little chat.

I don't think theres any reason for you to assume that they won't help you out.

I think you should contact them with a positive feeling that they are going to help you and not that they are out to mess with you.

 

Freya

[Robert Houllahan]

Paragon HFS+ for Windows is a great piece of software which helps allot with cross platform operation, http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/

 

We run into this issue at Cinelab and try to walk people through the issue with sucess, ProRes works fine on both platforms as long as Quicktime is installed.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

We run into this issue at Cinelab and try to walk people through the issue with sucess, ProRes works fine on both platforms as long as Quicktime is installed.

This isnt a cross platform issue. I bought a Mac and loaded it with FCP and it still didnt recognize the file.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I spoke with Doug from Spectra who is normally quite friendly but he more or less told me "it works over here so it must be something wrong on your end." I mentioned to him that I bought a Mac and installed FCP X and it still would not import into FCP or even play and he told me I should talk to one of his video guys (dont recall his name.)

 

Anyhow, I spoke with this fellow for a bit (very friendly guy but seemed to try to find any excuse to put things back on me) until we reached an impasse. He tried to tell me things that may have went wrong (on my end, of course, not his.) I explained to him that my previous transfer from Spectra played on Mac and PC both but this one plays on neither. He claims that since this one is HD that it is different and isn't necessarily going to play on PC or even a stock Mac. He previously had said that this file was more or less the same ProRes as the previous transfer but just higher res.

 

The conversation basically ended with him saying that I could send the disc back to them for them to "check out" and if they felt that it was their media that was faulty, they would help me. Otherwise, it's my problem. I mentioned to him thanks for his time but that I need to find a new lab due to incompatible workflow, he had his boss (Doug) call me back. Doug, being concerned that I would trash his business, proceeded to tell me that this is the first time he has ever had an issue like this and that I should be careful before blaming them when it could be my fault. I told him that blame has nothing to do with it...I just want my footage. I told him that I will take responsibility for the problem as being a workflow issue on my part if he tells me what I can do to be in line with his workflow. Then he goes back to what the other fellow said first and said "its just like the other SD file but larger so it shouldnt be a problem." I told him I didnt have a problem with the other file, even while on Windows in Avid and then, like the other guy, he switches to "but they aren't the same files, the HD one has much more info and is newer..."

 

In closing, he said I can send the disc back to them which I intend to do. I am not bashing Spectra here but just providing the conversation as it took place and letting whoever reads this make up their own mind. I won't personally use them again because I need to have a workflow that I can actually get functional. Maybe it is my fault, maybe it is theirs, but I do think their customer service could have been handled much better. This is only my opinion so YMMV.

 

I'll post a follow-up once they receive the disc and the resolution for those interested.