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WTB: Zeiss S16 Super Speed - 16mm, MkII or MkIII


Joshua G.

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I just bought a beautiful set of Mk2's (9.5mm, 12mm, 16mm, 25mm, 50mm) from this gentleman about three months ago. Oh, and he doesn't list them as Mk2's, but they are. You can tell because of the markings in both metric and imperial. Not sure if he actually has more sets for sale or just hasn't updated his site, but I'm Canadian and was able to get them shipped to me from the USA. Not sure if that helps:

 

http://systemassociates.com/16mm-lens/

Edited by Jeff L'Heureux
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With cinema lenses, are individual ones harder to come by than sets in the second-hand market? Am I better off buying a whole set rather than building one piece by piece (if/when funs allow)?

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Building up a set over time will be trickier because they won't be a matched set and their mechanical condition will probably vary. Even if you buy a set it's not a guarantee against those things. You just have to find out as much information as you can.

 

But there have been a few MKII, III single lenses coming up on eBay. With a good tech to help evaluate them you could build a set.

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That's very helpful, Gregg. I had always thought that lens mismatches were only a concern with stills lenses and that with cine the variance only pertained to indiviual pieces, owing perhaps to varying degrees of wear and/or maintenance.

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With the matching I was only thinking of the optics. Variation in manufacture or from damage. You can see some of that through the lens yourself and even shoot test charts, but if a tech puts it up on his projector he can tell you everything very quickly.

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Got one. I paid more than I originally budgeted, but I guess it's a seller's market out there for these lenses. While lens is on its way to me, could anyone tell me what is the general practice or precautions with second-hand cine lenses? Is it a good idea to have it serviced? It is also my understanding that since I'd be using a PL adapter for my camera, that it'll most likely need to shimmed. Could anyone recommend a place or technician in the UK where I can get all these done?

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It's good to get some idea of the history of use and service history when you buy. If the mechanicals feel good and the image looks sharp you could just try it out, but I would plan on getting a technician to look at it soonish, especially since you want to build a set. Find out who the people in London use. Same techs should be able to check your FFD with PL adapter. Is this a Blackmagic camera? Has the camera's factory mount FFD been checked?

 

If there are no sympathetic independent techs, the rental houses will have techs who know these lenses well, have the projector etc.

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[...] Is this a Blackmagic camera? Has the camera's factory mount FFD been checked?

 

It's the Pocket version, to be exact. As to the last question, I don't exactly know what that means. Who is to do this check?

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The distance from the lens flange to the image plane (FFD) should be corrected to spec. Then any properly collimated lens can be used.

 

The camera came with a native mount and you want to add a PL mount adapter to that, yes? The camera's native mount would be checked for FFD, then the PL mount adapter checked for FFD. That's the best way, otherwise you will end up accumulating adapters that are uniquely adjusted for that camera, and the uncorrected native mount on the camera will be problematic.

 

But maybe these cameras come with FFD correctly set in the factory?

 

I would ask on the BMCuser.com forum to see what people know already and who is good at adjusting FFD on these cameras

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Got one. I paid more than I originally budgeted, but I guess it's a seller's market out there for these lenses. While lens is on its way to me, could anyone tell me what is the general practice or precautions with second-hand cine lenses? Is it a good idea to have it serviced? It is also my understanding that since I'd be using a PL adapter for my camera, that it'll most likely need to shimmed. Could anyone recommend a place or technician in the UK where I can get all these done?

 

Hi Joshua,

 

with digital cameras you can check whether the lens and camera are set up correctly, just by shooting a chart with the lens at full aperture and checking that the focus marks on the lens match the distance. Or even simpler just check that a very distant object is sharp when the lens is set to infinity. It can sometimes be tricky judging focus with wide lenses, certainly helps to have a decent monitor to look at.

 

As Gregg said, the camera should be set up with the lens mount positioned exactly the specified distance from the sensor, something called the FFD or flange focal depth. Different mounts have different flange depth distances, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance

So for example Micro Four Thirds cameras have a FFD of 19.25mm, while PL is 52.00mm. The shorter flange depth allows for different adapters to be used. Some adapters are more accurate than others.

 

The other variable is the lens. A PL mount lens should be set up to focus sharply 52.00mm behind the mount (matching the camera FFD). With a spherical prime lens, if this distance is off it means the focus barrel marks will be off, and possibly the focus will hit a stop before it reaches infinity. The shorter the focal length, the more critical the back-focus distance becomes, and tiny errors can throw the focus marks right out. With zooms, the back-focus needs to be exactly right so that focus is maintained through the zoom range, otherwise they get soft at the wide end.

 

I would assume the camera FFD is good and if your Super Speed focus marks line up you're good to go. If they don't, then it might be worth getting things checked, because it could be the adapter or the lens, or (less likely) the camera. A tech should be able to check these settings very quickly, and re-shimming a lens or adapter doesn't take long either.

 

Regarding lens service, a clean and re-grease will extend the life of the lens but if you're on a tight budget it's probably not necessary unless you notice something wrong (or the lens is/has been exposed to contamination like fine sand or dust). The most common issue with older Zeiss designs like Super Speeds is wear to the focus helical, which can cause play in the focus and image shift. If you change direction of focus you might notice the image jump a bit. Sometimes this can be diminished by a simple adjustment of sliding keys inside and thicker grease, but often the threads need rebuilding which is a big job. Try to avoid using clip-on matteboxes with Super Speeds (or indeed any lens that telescopes), as that puts considerable pressure on the focus threads and accelerates wear. Another common issue with Super Speeds can be that the focus ring feels a bit loose, but that's a very simple fix. If you do have a tech service the lens, make sure they are very familiar with Super Speeds, a poor service can do more damage than years of use.

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