Jump to content

Bolex for sync sound


Brian Rose

Recommended Posts

My quest on decidinng which Bolex to buy continues...Basically, I want to get a great bolex for grad school, and I have heard some great things about the RX5 (more options in terms of var shutter, hand crank film etc), but I was thinking, is an RX5 with a tobin motor good for sync sound, or would I need a massive blimp? Would I be better off just getting an EBM or an EL? Basically, what Bolex would you all recommend: RX5, SBM, EBM, or EL?

Best,

BR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi;

 

for any kinda prolonged sync sound sequences a Bolex is not really gonna be very helpful (unless you like the sound of sewing machines all over your dialogue!) I must say however that it can be done.... Some people make incredible blimps for these things, this combined with inteligent camera placement/movement and great post audio manipulation, could bring ok results but even then I'd say only for minor moments. I own an RX5 and I love it, but I use it for non sync always even with the Tobin.

 

Olly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The cheapest sync sound cameras you'll find are probably the Auricon chop-tops on eBay, for a couple hundred bucks. If they are working properly they are the cheapest deal in town; C-mount lens support, AC sync motors, and they run pretty quiet. But Auricons are not reflex cameras; you typically see them with Pan Cinor or Angenieux "dog leg" zoom lenses. If you need a reflex camera, look for a Cinema Products CP-16R, on eBay they're running about a grand.

 

For student projects you can't beat a Bolex. But if you are shooting dialog, it's too noisy. You can post-dub/ADR voices or record audio separately on-set when the camera's not rolling.

Edited by Robert Hughes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose my problem is, I really like the Bolex because of its size and I have experience with it, and I am familiar with all the makes and models. So, is it possible, say with the EL, to shoot sound if I had a good blimp or barney?

Best,

BR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once heard Andy Warhol shot most of his movies with a Bolex

So you can shoot synch sound work with a Bolex...

However it's NOT highly recommended.

 

If you really like a Bolex get one for MOS work.

If you're doing a student project you can experiment with synch-sound work

See if it works and if you like it

(Blimping it will definitely make it bulky and more difficult to work with)

 

If you're doing serious work

Just rent a synch-sound camera when you need synch-sound work

 

Or you can always buy a CP16R

Or and Eclair ACl (which is pretty lightweight as well)

 

I would aviod Auricons--ESPECIALLY the ones on Ebay!

The few I've seen have been finicky

They're difficult to load, can have many jamming problems,

And have power problems, and of course they're not Reflex cameras.

 

{I know someone here will pop up with an exceptionally running Auricon

Just to disprove me :) }

 

Anyways I recommend if you're really in love with a Bolex

Get one (even if it can shoot synch sound--it's still very useful)

 

 

Good Luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
I once heard Andy Warhol shot most of his movies with a Bolex

So you can shoot synch sound work with a Bolex...

However it's NOT highly recommended.

 

If you really like a Bolex get one for MOS work.

If you're doing a student project you can experiment with synch-sound work

See if it works and if you like it

(Blimping it will definitely make it bulky and more difficult to work with)

 

If you're doing serious work

Just rent a synch-sound camera when you need synch-sound work

 

Or you can always buy a CP16R

Or and Eclair ACl (which is pretty lightweight as well)

 

I would aviod Auricons--ESPECIALLY the ones on Ebay!

The few I've seen have been finicky

They're difficult to load, can have many jamming problems,

And have power problems, and of course they're not Reflex cameras.

 

{I know someone here will pop up with an exceptionally running Auricon

Just to disprove me  :) }

 

Anyways I recommend if you're really in love with a Bolex

Get one (even if it can shoot synch sound--it's still very useful)

Good Luck

 

 

Also, the only reason you "can't" do it with a bolex is because the camera is loud. I'm sure there are creative ways to shut it up. Seal it up in a fishtank or something.

 

The EL doesn't seem much quieter than the wind ups. Definitely don't use the magazine for sync.

 

I have a question... how does one project the image at 24fps and re enact the scene... repeat the dialogue for recording? Is there a sync projector that is that quiet?

 

Thanks!

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hey guys,

 

I have recently aqquired an SBM that was unloved for quite some time and have been doing some repairs on it, getting it back to its original condition, or better.

 

My question is this - You can buy a tobin motor for the camera and have crystal sync ( which for someone with a small budget isn't ideal) , which would be the perferred way to shoot sync sound, but would the Perfectone MST motor ( The Original motor made for sync sound recording, which is with the camera ) still give me good results for sync sound?

 

Also I know the camera is noisy, and not just "a little", the thing is like a coffee grinder. Maybe i'll come up with a blimp for it. Does anyone have any suggestions for blimp housings for the RX5/SBM/EL's? Thanks

- Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Michael Carter
I have a question... how does one project the image at 24fps and re enact the scene... repeat the dialogue for recording? Is there a sync projector that is that quiet?

Have it transferred to miniDV and capture it into your PC. Start up Voice Recorder or what have you; a Radio Shack mic works, the stereo one for the PC, if you cup your hand around it and put a sock over your hand, a thin one, you will eliminate pops up close, and you need to be really close up. Play back the video in mplayerc and record the sound at the same time. It works :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys,

 

I have recently aqquired an SBM that was unloved for quite some time and have been doing some repairs on it, getting it back to its original condition, or better.

 

My question is this - You can buy a tobin motor for the camera and have crystal sync ( which for someone with a small budget isn't ideal) , which would be the perferred way to shoot sync sound, but would the Perfectone MST motor ( The Original motor made for sync sound recording, which is with the camera ) still give me good results for sync sound?

 

Also I know the camera is noisy, and not just "a little", the thing is like a coffee grinder. Maybe i'll come up with a blimp for it. Does anyone have any suggestions for blimp housings for the RX5/SBM/EL's? Thanks

                                      - Ian

 

You can get a tobin sync motor for the camera. The newer ones are bulkier but quieter. He might also make sync pulse generators for that other motor? Check the site.

 

You could lube the camera. I've had an SBM and an SB and they were both rather quiet (lubed recently). Now I have a blimp I got on ebay which is leather with padding inside. Fits around the camera nicely and buckles. Keeps the thing running pretty quiet. I'd say from 8 feet away I can barely hear it running.

 

The magazine makes the camera way way louder, so I guess you can avoid that for sync shots.

 

Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
Guest gregorscheer
Hey guys,

 

I have recently aqquired an SBM that was unloved for quite some time and have been doing some repairs on it, getting it back to its original condition, or better.

 

My question is this - You can buy a tobin motor for the camera and have crystal sync ( which for someone with a small budget isn't ideal) , which would be the perferred way to shoot sync sound, but would the Perfectone MST motor ( The Original motor made for sync sound recording, which is with the camera ) still give me good results for sync sound?

 

Also I know the camera is noisy, and not just "a little", the thing is like a coffee grinder. Maybe i'll come up with a blimp for it. Does anyone have any suggestions for blimp housings for the RX5/SBM/EL's? Thanks

- Ian

There are blimps out there I got one for my EBM for $200 on ebay you can also use a sound cover and make a hole in it for the lens . More importantly is smart camera and mike placement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

B)-->

QUOTE(Steven B @ Sep 2 2005, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could lube the camera. I've had an SBM and an SB and they were both rather quiet (lubed recently). Now I have a blimp I got on ebay which is leather with padding inside. Fits around the camera nicely and buckles. Keeps the thing running pretty quiet. I'd say from 8 feet away I can barely hear it running.

 

Stephen,

 

What you are describing sounds more like a barney than a blimp.

 

A blimp is usually a solid housing that is full of sound deadening material and you mount the camera inside and close it up. Blimps can pretty much eliminate all the sound, but they are usually big and heavy and cumbersome to use.

 

A barney on the other hand is usually made of leather or vinyl and some sound deadening material inside it and you wrap the camera in it. Barneys do not do as good of a job of eliminating the sound, but they make it much easier to handle the camera.

 

Tobin made a blimp for the Bolex once, or at least sold a set of blimp plans and the special sound deadening glass for the front. You may want to talk to Clive and see if he has any of that left.

 

-Tim Carroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was the Bolex Pro that was designed for sync work.It had a coaxial magazine very similar to an Arri 35 BL and it was crystal sync and could also do sound on film like an Auricon.There weren't too many of them made,but I've seen a few of them on ebay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
Hi;

 

for any kinda prolonged sync sound sequences a Bolex is not really gonna be very helpful (unless you like the sound of sewing machines all over your dialogue!) I must say however that it can be done.... Some people make incredible blimps for these things, this combined with inteligent camera placement/movement and great post audio manipulation, could bring ok results but even then I'd say only for minor moments. I own an RX5 and I love it, but I use it for non sync always even with the Tobin.

 

Olly

Hey, a you would not beinterested in selling or trading your REX5?

Tono

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once heard Andy Warhol shot most of his movies with a Bolex

So you can shoot synch sound work with a Bolex...

However it's NOT highly recommended.

 

 

{I know someone here will pop up with an exceptionally running Auricon

Just to disprove me :) }

 

Then I've seen photos of them being shot with Auricon conversions.

 

Just found this by Googling: warhol auricon:

 

First, from 1963 to late 1964 there was a plethora of slow-projected (16 fps), silent, shortish black-and-white films shot on a Bolex - the favourite lightweight camera of avant-garde and documentary film-makers. The camera was static and the shooting unedited, the film's length determined by the length of the reel. Second, from 1964 Warhol used the Auricon camera with its built-in sound system (perversely, it was first used for the silent epic Empire). This was an intense, fertile period in which the slow-motion aesthetic gave way to a form of modernist 'theatre' aided and abetted by 'scriptwriter-collaborators' Chuck Wein and Ronald Tavel, the latter a dramatist associated with the Theatre of the Ridiculous.

 

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/188/

 

So Andy Warhol,or rather Paul Morrissey the actual director, didn't shoot sync with a bolex.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...