Student going to film school

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Oh god! Computer Science is one of the worst subjects to study if you want to have a decent career.

It's actually up there with filmmaking as a really bad career from a financial perspective.

I used to be a software developer...

Here is some code for you:

 

SoftwareDeveloper != ComputerScientist.

 

True Computer Scientists are usually in academia and research. At least, that is the path I am taking. They are not mere "code monkeys" who write and maintain (mostly maintain) code. Although I imagine many people with technical vocational (or even BA/BS) degrees end up in those jobs. I wouldn't even consider CS for interesting work unless you are going for MSCS or PhD.

[Freya Black]

Here is some code for you:

 

SoftwareDeveloper != ComputerScientist.

 

True Computer Scientists are usually in academia and research. At least, that is the path I am taking. They are not mere "code monkeys" who write and maintain (mostly maintain) code. Although I imagine many people with technical vocational (or even BA/BS) degrees end up in those jobs. I wouldn't even consider CS for interesting work unless you are going for MSCS or PhD.

 

This probably answers your previous posting! :)

 

The only bit I disagree with is that such developers are mostly "maintaining" code.

This is not my experience. Here in the UK, my experience was that there was a constant drive for new features and that stuff like bug fixing was considered low priority and low value. I was mostly working writing software development tools tho. I think in the freelance world they were more likely to hire someone in to maintain something, and it was much better paid too! Nice work if you can get it.

 

I think you are basically spot on however, that a lot of the real work in relation to actual computer science takes place in academia. Like I said earlier, a lot of the more mathematical software algorithms in use out there have already been developed (in academia as you suggest). This is probably a good way of doing things as there is no point in every company re-inventing the wheel.

 

You are also spot on to suggest that most people with a Bsc in Computer Science end up in these jobs. You do run into people working in unrelated fields such as the video editing for the BBC thing as Brian suggested. Sometimes they end up doing IT work or technical support too. You can also find these people on the dole queue quite a bit as well.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Here is some code for you:

 

SoftwareDeveloper != ComputerScientist.

 

True Computer Scientists are usually in academia and research. At least, that is the path I am taking. They are not mere "code monkeys" who write and maintain (mostly maintain) code. Although I imagine many people with technical vocational (or even BA/BS) degrees end up in those jobs. I wouldn't even consider CS for interesting work unless you are going for MSCS or PhD.

 

To add to this slightly, I'm really glad to hear you are going the academia and research path! I think there is interesting work in the commercial world too but you end up having to be a "code monkey" while you do it. Long hours, and these days poorly paid to boot with very, very poor job security. Obviously in the world of academia you really need a PhD. This is not a path that is directly open to most people. Here in the UK it's also fantastically hard to get work in academia.

 

Good luck with it! I hope you do great things! :)

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

A friend of mine did computer science and now edits top BBC dramas.

 

I have a friend who used to love eating strawberries and now has a great job at the BBC too!

I recommend the strawberries path. It's way easier and much cheaper than doing a computer science degree.

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

I have a degree, and I don't think either the practical learning I did or the simple fact of having it has ever helped me in any way at all.

 

Now, the subject I actually studied has little if anything to do with what I do now, mainly because "multimedia systems" in the late 90s was a fashionable euphemism for web design, and my course graduated directly into the dotcom crunch of 2000, which is largely why I'm here. But to be honest, the content of the course was so feeble and outdated that it wouldn't have helped anyway. Subjects like that are terribly prone to become out of date, and almost all of the teaching that was done was three years ago's news, which was, and remains, a lifetime in web design. It was like this because the hardware and software required to do true multimedia work - video was exotic at the time - is of course much more expensive than that required for say basic computer science, and the institution didn't want to spend the money. This sort of thing is something to look out for - if you're spending serious money, it is your responsibility to ask searching questions, and don't be too worried about upsetting them. You're the customer.

 

But I digress. The moral of this story is that I think going to a really good university is probably worthwhile. If you can test or pay your way to a well-known institution, there's probably value in that. But here in the UK, where until the late 90s you could get a degree for nothing, it became far too easy for people to go to school for three years so they didn't have to get a job, or because it simply became the done thing for everyone to go and crank out a BSc.

 

Er, you don't want to do that.

 

P

[Keith Walters]

Nowadays it seems to be the done thing in the UK to spend 5 years or so in one of the new "Pre-Fab" Zero-Ranking "Universities" and come out with a degree that might as well have come off the back of a cornflakes packet.

I'm currently fair surrounded by semi-literate UK-sourced prats with BEs in Electrical Engineering, Computer Science and similar subjects who know absolutely nothing about either subject, and seem proud of the fact.

And by that I don't mean they don't seem to know much, I mean they know SFA!

What the f*ck did they do for all that time?!

Actually, after having helped my niece with her Arts Degree at a local university, I think I have a pretty good idea....

[Chris Millar]

Subjects like that are terribly prone to become out of date, and almost all of the teaching that was done was three years ago's news.

 

...

 

If you're spending serious money, it is your responsibility to ask searching questions, and don't be too worried about upsetting them. You're the customer.

 

From a 3rd year level computer graphics class at a 'Top 34' Higher Education World University (rankings 2013-2014):

 

 

Blinn and Phong are all the rage.

[Gregory Irwin]

Weber,

Here is the bottom line to all of this: From this moment on, whether you decide on college or no college and your decision on which career path you choose, you better be 1000% committed to your choice with a perserverience of character and an attitude of "take no prisoners". Otherwise, you will be STEAMROLLED by all of the others who do have that commitment and desire for the same. I wish you the best of luck for your future.

 

Greg

[Carl King]

Gregory, that "perseverance of character and attitude of take no prisoners" is easy for a kid to claim he has, when he's getting a free ride to film school. :)

 

Seems to me that people often need to be faced with a real obstacle before they can learn those things. Interesting topic.

 

-Carl.

[Gregory Irwin]

Gregory, that "perseverance of character and attitude of take no prisoners" is easy for a kid to claim he has, when he's getting a free ride to film school. :)

 

Seems to me that people often need to be faced with a real obstacle before they can learn those things. Interesting topic.

 

-Carl.

 

I'm sorry Carl, maybe I'm not understanding you. What you wrote makes absolutely no sense to me. It doesn't matter what you have or don't have if you don't have the correct attitude to back yourself up. Higher education won't do much good if you feel entitled and don't put forth the effort. Just as a $5000 camera won't do much if the person behind it has no training or ambition to learn and compete in this near impossible work environment.

 

G

[Carl King]

I agree with all these things! Sorry if my post was not clear.

 

-Carl.

[Guest]

Otherwise, you will be STEAMROLLED by all of the others who do have that commitment and desire for the same. I wish you the best of luck for your future.

 

Greg

 

That's right Greg, I will steamroll you the first chance I get. :D

 

R,

[Gregory Irwin]

That's right Greg, I will steamroll you the first chance I get. :D

 

R,

;)

[Weber Kendrick]

Weber,

Here is the bottom line to all of this: From this moment on, whether you decide on college or no college and your decision on which career path you choose, you better be 1000% committed to your choice with a perserverience of character and an attitude of "take no prisoners". Otherwise, you will be STEAMROLLED by all of the others who do have that commitment and desire for the same. I wish you the best of luck for your future.

 

Greg

Thank you , :)) i'm sure i'm gonna 1000% committed to Cinamatography, follow my dream

[Freya Black]

Gregory, that "perseverance of character and attitude of take no prisoners" is easy for a kid to claim he has, when he's getting a free ride to film school. :)

 

My concern is that it's not actually a free ride but that the parent is looking for a very serious return on their investment, so it's a bit more like a loan for which the exact terms are vague and undisclosed.

 

I don't think it's ever a good thing when people are looking to others for the answers to their problems.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Gregory, that "perseverance of character and attitude of take no prisoners" is easy for a kid to claim he has, when he's getting a free ride to film school. :)

 

My concern is that it's not actually a free ride but that the parent is looking for a very serious return on their investment, so it's a bit more like a loan for which the exact terms are vague and undisclosed.

 

I don't think it's ever a good thing when people are looking to others for the answers to their problems.

 

Freya

[Michael LaVoie]

Typically you pay by semester. If I were you, I'd pay for a first year and find out what you're getting into. Usually after the second semester you'll have a handle on whether it's for you. After seeing my first 16mm footage come back from the lab and projecting it, I was totally hooked. Learning about light meters and making book lights and dimmers, as well as taking acting and directing and editing classes. Most of it was exciting. A lot to learn all at once though and you will still be learning lots of stuff for the first time when you finally get on real sets. Film school is only as good as the faculty you get, the colleagues around you, the gear you have access to and what you bring to it yourself. Which is why you'll hear wildly differing opinions on whether it's worth it or not. Like many things in this business, it can be a roll of the dice.

 

Your initial post though was asking about the salaries, check out the IATSE rate cards and you'll get a feel for what different jobs earn in the camera department. For the most part, if you're good and you find work, you'll do well. The main thing is figuring out what it is you want specifically and whether what you want is suited to your skillset and talent. Sometimes those things are not inline yet and film school can help sort all of that out because you're asked to do many different things, creative and logistical. You also say that you're into visual FX. That's often a desk job position and typically, a different sort of person does well with that than one that's on their feet on set all day. But these days being interested in both is a huge plus both for you creatively as well as to potential employers. Good luck.

[Phil Rhodes]

 

 

IATSE rate cards

 

...do not actually represent the pay that most people who work in film actually get.

 

It may be less the case in the US, where a greater proportion of film workers are on high-end stuff, but it's important to remember that it is very difficult to achieve those levels of employment even in Los Angeles. Elsewhere in the US, and even globally, it can be very, very difficult to make any sort of a living in film.

 

Union members working on big, expensive Hollywood movies are a vanishingly small percentage, on a global scale, of people who actually work in film.

 

P

[Michael LaVoie]

 

...do not actually represent the pay that most people who work in film actually get.

 

It may be less the case in the US, where a greater proportion of film workers are on high-end stuff, but it's important to remember that it is very difficult to achieve those levels of employment even in Los Angeles. Elsewhere in the US, and even globally, it can be very, very difficult to make any sort of a living in film.

 

Union members working on big, expensive Hollywood movies are a vanishingly small percentage, on a global scale, of people who actually work in film.

 

P

Phil makes a great point that I am speaking mostly of the US film job market on the east and west coast. IATSE work may be few and far between in other areas. No idea.

Being aware of the union rates is good, even if you're not able to earn them presently. It keeps you knowledgeable of the fair market value of the labor so when those opportunites do come up to quote a legit rate, you at least know what the figures are.

 

As you work in the field and talk to people the day rates of the area, job market etc. will become apparent. However if the goal is to eventually work on film TV shows with stars and with networks, studios, etc. Then joining the union becomes necessary in most cases.

[Weber Kendrick]

Tks guy but i still can't find the "salary" i don't know how to use that. Can anyone find some examples for me, Cinematography vs VFX in Florida and Cali ? thank you so much much

[Brian Drysdale]

Usually there isn't a set "salary", since most cinematographers are freelance, they usually work with daily rates or perhaps an agreed fee for an individual production. You tend to have full time jobs or longer term contracts with broadcasters, or facility houses, rather than on most productions.

[Gregory Irwin]

In the IATSE, DPs make $98.21 per hour if they are working at union scale. This is based on an 8 hour day with OT after 8. This doesn't include the benefits that are earned as well for healthcare, pension and retirement. Most VFX companies and employees are non-union.

 

G

[Bala Naga Abishek]

hi, i'm in chennai... planning to do cinematography course... which college is good in coaching and having latest and good equipements...

[Gregory Irwin]

hi, i'm in chennai... planning to do cinematography course... which college is good in coaching and having latest and good equipements...

1. USC

2. NYU

3. California State University at Long Beach

4. UCLA

 

In that order.

[Michael LaVoie]

You left out AFI Plenty of famous DP's graduate that program.