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singer claims genesis footage better than film


Evan Winter

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the following should be an interesting read - here's a link to a transcript from the theatre where singer et al. viewed the first projected footage from the genesis camera currently being used to shoot superman returns.

 

http://www.bluetights.net/transcript.php?id=9

 

the key quote that caught my attention was singer stating, 'Now it looks better than film'.

 

this is said in passing by singer but the comment is still telling.

 

evan

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the following should be an interesting read - here's a link to a transcript from the theatre where singer et al. viewed the first projected footage from the genesis camera currently being used to shoot superman returns.

 

http://www.bluetights.net/transcript.php?id=9

 

the key quote that caught my attention was singer stating, 'Now it looks better than film'.

 

this is said in passing by singer but the comment is still telling.

 

evan

 

Don't forget that the images were evaluated in a screening room environment, digitally projected on a smaller screen (likely only a 2K projector). Whether that opinion holds up on a 60 foot theatre screen or though post production is still not known. I recall that the editor had some concerns that the post-production stream took longer than film origination.

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Please, lets not start this digital better than film thing again.  It makes me want to shoot myself in the face!  :blink:

Yours truly,

 

President of the Format Agnostic Society.  :D

Yeah really. This time tomorrow there will be seven pages worth of posts from the usual you-know-who's bickering backing and forth and rehashing the twenty-nine thousand other seven-pages threads just like this one. Dang people!

 

Financial supporter of the Format Agnostic Society.

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What caught my attention was the four-day wait. (Well three, Monday to Thursday, they can't count).

 

Why does it take until Thursday to see HD dailies shot on Monday?

 

The "what if it was film" argument was wrong anyway. If they shot in Tamworth Monday, the neg would fly to Sydney Monday night, process THAT night, go to transfer on Tuesday, and be available late Tuesday, not Wednesday. Certainly not Thursday.

 

Can't make it faster than film? I thought that was a big selling point.

 

Also hearing unconfirmed rumours that the location shooting is proving a little difficult on HD because of the high ratio light conditions in outback Australia. Not a problem on film. Not a problem on Star Wars, all shot in studio.

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I have no desire to get into another film/digital debate either, though its probably inevitably going to happen.

 

Feels to me like to some degree, directors taking up the digital mantel have the underlying agenda of being crowned a "cutting edge, trailblazing, cinematic genious".

 

The only major studio director so far to say I shot HD because it offered me the look I wanted without the need to compare it to film in a pessimistic way is Michael Mann.

 

When I hear statements like "Now it looks better than film, how do we make it go faster than film?", it makes me wonder.

 

 

Also Tom Seigel says

 

"You know, it's a whole new language, it's a whole new technology so to really explore all the stuff we can get out of it, we're certainly gonna make some mistakes along the way, we're gonna learn some things along the way but we're gonna' discover... "

 

Grading images electronically has been around for nearly twenty years now. Rec 709 color space - 1920 x 1080 HD has been around for about six years, with a flood of television, music video, and commercial post production moving into the format. This statement infers that there is still alot of undiscovered territory in the format, I'm curious as to what he is learning new that no one else as yet discovered.

 

 

I am generally curious and not asking this as the start to a heated debate.

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Can't make it faster than film? I thought that was a big selling point.

You can't tell what the heck they're talking about from this transcription. Sounds to me like they're referring to color-corrected material, in which I'd say four days is a blessing. But like I said, I can't wade through the stupid crap in the article so I don't know. It's not very informative and hardly something to really analyze. They sound a little too drunk.

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I think he's talking about shooting theatrical features digitally as still being a relatively new field.

 

From what I understand its more the projection from digital that's still a work in progress.

 

Working with LUT's and converting HD color space to a film print color space. Hammering out standards to do this in a predictable and repeatable fashion is still being worked out.

 

Standards for digital projection are still in flux. 2K - 4K, some recommending 12 bit color depth, some 16 bit color depth.

 

But I'm still not understanding what's new and undiscovered in the shooting or color correction. The resolution and color depth are set.

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Yeah really. This time tomorrow there will be seven pages worth of posts from the usual you-know-who's bickering backing and forth and rehashing the twenty-nine thousand other seven-pages threads just like this one. Dang people!

 

Financial supporter of the Format Agnostic Society.

 

I got five bucks this thread reaches 7 pages by May 3 next Tuesday

That's 4 days from now...

 

So who's in the pool? :)

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Also hearing unconfirmed rumours that the location shooting is proving a little difficult on HD because of the high ratio light conditions in outback Australia. Not a problem on film. Not a problem on Star Wars, all shot in studio.

 

Perhaps the adjustments and mistakes that the DP himself reffered too and that seem to be puzzling a few on this forum, is the DP and gaffer getting used to and learning how to deal with limited highlight handling of CCD?

 

This can be mistakenly reported by onlookers as "problems".

 

I can't see many shots that come into the "having problems" category shooting in harsh sunlight on digital on a reasonable budget movie.

One simply uses a larger/heavier silk, more fill or bigger key lamp or all three.

Set designers should be aware need to explore how surfaces are captured by ccds.

 

More of a problem on low budgets with limited resources....

 

I'm off to the sunny Bahamas next week to shoot a promotional video for a TV manufacturer for instore use at 5000 outlets. Their choice of format, after 3 months of deliberation and testing is uncompressed HD.

 

 

Mike Brennan

Edited by mike
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There are so many spelling mistakes in that article that I concur with the "they were drunk" analysis.

 

Anyone who says "pan down" loses my respect, as in "You can see it with the Genesis camera, you can see Jupiter, and than pan down from Jupiter...". I hope he was misquoted. One pans left and right, and tilts up and down.

 

A small issue, perhaps, but I have seen several experienced commercial crews snicker when a wanna-be director tells the DP to 'pan down'. (they never ask to tilt left or right, for some reason.)

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Hey Brent,

 

How are you? Not sure if you recall, I met you several times at Partners' when I was 2nd'ing. I love your crewpix website!! I hope all is well for you and I look forward to soon seeing your name in lights when you're DP'ing Hollywood's biggest and best! :)

 

Evan

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I got five bucks this thread reaches 7 pages by May 3 next Tuesday

That's 4 days from now...

 

So who's in the pool?  :)

 

Just freaking great man!

 

As always I lose! :angry:

 

Where were the controversial debates?

Why didn't someone make a heated comment?

 

It's just great man--game over man--what are we gonna do now?

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Pan up, pan down, who cares if you've films have earned a billion dollars? He can the camera's bananaing down if he fancies it. anyone here going to correct him? Anyway the workflow issue was really interesting my assumption is that they're losing time in both colour correction and down conversion. but something tells me that this is not really an issue and that they're having a laugh at our expense. There is no reason why they cannot have the SR footage going straight into their pipe and have the editors working simultaniously with the grading team. I'm sure that whatever you believe about shooting with the genesis Sigel is going to give the editors enough information to work with.

 

Keith

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There are so many spelling mistakes in that article that I concur with the "they were drunk" analysis.

 

Anyone who says "pan down" loses my respect, as in "You can see it with the Genesis camera, you can see Jupiter, and than pan down from Jupiter...". I hope he was misquoted. One pans left and right, and tilts up and down.

 

A small issue, perhaps, but I have seen several experienced commercial crews snicker when a wanna-be director tells the DP to 'pan down'. (they never ask to tilt left or right, for some reason.)

 

When I did my film studies degree we were all told by a very pedantic lecturer (a very talented theorist with no interest/experience operating a camera or visiting a film set) the strict difference between pan and tilt. We were also warned we would be severely docked marks if we used either term incorrectly.

 

A couple of years after that I attended a lecture on Jack Cardiff and Freddie Francis, both gentlemen were present. Straight from Cardiff's mouth he was describing camera operation and he frequently used the term "pan down".

 

Safe to say, university was a waste of time. ;)

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I think the rule should just be if everyone understands what you're saying. If a director told me to "pan down from the sky", I wouldn't correct him, I'd tilt down from the sky.

 

It's a good idea to learn the proper terms of things as long as you understand it has nothing to do with whether you are any good or not at cinematography...

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