James Martin Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Of course, the question is also, given the cost of getting these lights inspected by somebody, is it really worth the cost savings by getting either ARRI, or a reliable and known alternative, eg. Filmgear? I'm sure the answer for most people would be no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted September 21, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted September 21, 2014 Depends if you can do it yourself. I'm confident of my ability to make something like that safe. Other people may not be, and that's just a case of skills having value. More to the point, if you can't afford a Rolls-Royce, a Cortina will have to do, regardless of what you think of the Cortina. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Bill DiPietra Posted September 21, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted September 21, 2014 Knowing nothing about electrical wiring (and I mean NOTHING), I suppose I'll test them by either living or dying when I turn them on in October. I know everyone needs to cut costs somewhere, but safety really isn't the department to be doing that with. ARRI fresnels really aren't that expensive once you figure in the life & quality you get out of them. I would look to save up for a couple of 650s sometime in the near future. I would definitely have your lights looked at by an electrician before you even think about turning them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted September 21, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted September 21, 2014 I know everyone needs to cut costs somewhere, but safety really isn't the department to be doing that with I was on a indie shoot couple of years ago where they used real guns and ammo instead of using blanks because they wanted to cut costs by not "wasting money" on blanks… If shooting mostly small indie productions, then it may be handy to purchase real Arri lights (if shooting lots of stuff and no money to rent lighting gear) or purchase cheaper chinese stuff (no money to rent and no money to purchase arri gear, also shooting not so often so no need for more durable gear) . I purchased the chinese stuff because I knew I could easily repair them "if" there's some issues :/ I also needed lights for time consuming small scale second unit stuff (miniatures etc) and for documentary demos etc. For bigger productions I can rent lights (arri, filmgear) and no need to keep the chinese stuff around there. I would stay away from chinese hmi, though. May be very difficult and dangerous to repair and very bad idea to have uninspected high voltage gear around… have used some Filmgear him:s and they were OK but non-brand hmi:s directly from China, no way in hell :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian dart Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 the bigger question than whether you can afford to get your gear tested is that there are more and more studios and locations that will not allow electrical equipment on their property that has not been tested and tagged. i have been on several shoots for instance where make up's hair dryer was not allowed to be used until it was tagged. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 hi gregg, i am in melbourne australia just across the ditch.... i test to the australian standard AS/NZS 3760:2010 Thanks Ian. There are some assumptions in this thread about the cost of testing and the small repairs that may be needed. To help with that, can you tell us what costs typically are, when you do it in Australia. Example scenarios. - Visual inspection, test with gizmo, all good. - As above, but internal wiring looks baked, needs to be replaced or refreshed. I have bought used redheads, blonds before (Ianaro/Ianebeam/DeSisti) and every one of them the internal wiring looked baked, unsafe, even the ones that looked almost new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Clark Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 If you are a fool like me who invested money in his horrible As Arri clones and $30 red heads, how would you advise one in my situation in terms of SAFETY? Please no "throw them out now!" jokes. Not an option for me. But on a real and practical level, what to check for? Like I said before, I have called every electrician and service in the area and nobody knows what the hell I'm asking about when I ask them about checking my film lights for proper wiring and safety. Electricians usually are more familiar with house wiring, codes, and the like... at least that's the hope. Internal wiring of equipment is usually not something they do... Further, in the modern age, it seems toss and get a new one is the current option for more 'repair/service', for most items under $100-500 depending. This is especially true for 'electronics'. While getting in and 'fixing' things may be educational, it can also be dangerous, and lead to some number of problems... shock, fire... hey, but it could also fix the problem and allow you to use the equipment effectively until you can afford better. Don't know if there are others who have done the DIY fix it on the particular lights you have, but I'm sure there are many youtube or similar videos of people fixing their cheap lights, and so you can look at those and see if it is something you want to do. Personally... I'd fix the cheap lights, and have done so... the power cord was not strain relieved in one case, in another some epoxy was required for some part to hold together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian dart Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 the cost is typicaly just a couple of dollars per item but on set i offer it as a part of my gaffer services and dont charge. depending on time available. many a lunch break i have spent testing. rewiring i do in the luxury of my workshop and charge a nominal fee to cover parts. but should cost about 50 dollars depending on parts the wiring inside hot lights is under great stress from heat and movement (flood/spot) and tends to be the first to suffer. although the NAME BRAND lights spend a lot of time and effort on their attempts to make it durable and safe. most electricians as a rule wont do repairs as it is not cost effective. so you need to hunt down a friendly gaffer (if you can find one.........) after the recent death from a cheap/faulty phone charger i seem to spend a lot of time testing them. this i usually do gratis. cheers mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 ....so you need to hunt down a friendly gaffer (if you can find one.........) They do exist. Thanks for that. Cheers, Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted September 22, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted September 22, 2014 I'm surprised there haven't been any electrocutions or injuries reported with these sort of fixtures but I suppose people expect them to be a bit crappy so they're careful. One YouTube comparison review I watched recommended the "As Arri" knock-off over an original despite the fact that the lens had developed a crack and the power lead had pulled right out of the wall plug. In the comments section someone had written: "My glass also cracked on 2 off 4 1k lights that ive got. But i'm using them whithout glass, works fine, maybe even better!" Maybe these things are a Darwinian mechanism to thin out the ranks of the dim-witted. :) Many years ago when I was at a different company I remember someone got a nasty electrical burn because the back cover of a fresnel switch had fallen off, and the poor devil had gone to turn the light off and grabbed the bare contacts. He was lucky not to be killed I guess. We discovered a whole batch of lights where the self-tappers holding the back covers on had been over-tightened at the factory and cracked the plastic studs they screwed into. The company changed switch designs if I recall, but some of these Chinese copies look like they use the old switch design. Of course one of the problems with reviewing these knock-offs is that there are probably 20 different factories churning them out with different levels of quality control even within the one factory. The CE conformity markings that Aapo mentions are on his lights are as easily copied as the lights themselves, according to Wikipedia there is even a very similar logo that apparently means "Chinese Export"! If you buy products direct from China via ebay you have zero consumer protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted September 22, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted September 22, 2014 In the comments section someone had written: "My glass also cracked on 2 off 4 1k lights that ive got. But i'm using them whithout glass, works fine, maybe even better!" Maybe these things are a Darwinian mechanism to thin out the ranks of the dim-witted. :) Yeah, sounds like some of them may be partially blind sooner or later <_< Even 300w bulb has lots of energy if it decides to explode, note the marks those glass shrapnels left to the aluminum reflector which is about 1.5mm thick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted September 22, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted September 22, 2014 I don't want to come off as the eternal apologist for these things, but an exploding lamp can mark a reflector from almost any manufacturer. Of course, some lamps are more likely to explode than others. What worries me is the tendency for electrical safety problems. There can be no excuse for using these things without doing a thorough covers-off inspection of the entire electrical system. But to be honest, I tend to do that to most of the things I buy. It doesn't have to be bottom-end imported junk to have problems, sadly. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted September 22, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted September 22, 2014 I don't want to come off as the eternal apologist for these things, but an exploding lamp can mark a reflector from almost any manufacturer. Of course, some lamps are more likely to explode than others. I meant that if they are using the fixtures without any protection (lens or safety net) in place there will be hot glass flying everywhere if the bulb explodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted September 22, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted September 22, 2014 It doesn't have to be bottom-end imported junk to have problems, sadly. P No, but importers and local manufacturers have to abide by safety regulations and certifications and can be held responsible if a product is found to be dangerously faulty. That's a powerful incentive that doesn't apply to manufacturers of knock-offs who sell via ebay and ship to your door with no repercussions for negligence beyond a bad feedback score. If a product sold through B&H for example had the power cable repeatedly pull out of the wall plug there would probably be a recall and the product would be discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schuurman Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 oh man I have two 150w as-arri lights and they are so shoddy....although I've used them for 2 years with no problems, until last month...I had them backlighting a couple little things on a set and one ofthem was giving me a bit of a mild shock when I would touch it, so I unplugged it. the cables are all pulling out which is probably the issue, I should give them a repair, but I haven't needed them since then so they're just sitting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 ....but importers and local manufacturers have to abide by safety regulations and certifications and can be held responsible ..... In New Zealand (maybe some other places in the world also) there are businesses selling imported chinese gear that is not well made. I didn't see the fresnels, but very crappy redheads, very cheap. Maybe they exist because we have a state run compensation process rather than all the suing like in the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Bill DiPietra Posted October 4, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted October 4, 2014 oh man I have two 150w as-arri lights and they are so shoddy....although I've used them for 2 years with no problems, until last month...I had them backlighting a couple little things on a set and one ofthem was giving me a bit of a mild shock when I would touch it, so I unplugged it. Sorry, but these things should be off the market due to safety issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 , I should give them a repair, but I haven't needed them since then so they're just sitting around. The problem with that approach is that you might forget or someone else might pick them up. Better to fix an electrical fault straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schuurman Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The problem with that approach is that you might forget or someone else might pick them up. Better to fix an electrical fault straight away. You're right, I took them apart tonight and fixed all the worn, torn, and fraying bits and tightened everything down, lots of strain relief. Last thing I need to do is seal the plug ends and switch in/out's. I have an indoor/outdoor latex sealant from homedepot for use around the house, would that be adviseable to use or should I use a product that is specifically for sealing cables? I don't konw what makes it good or bad so I'd love someone to chime in with some insight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 5, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted October 5, 2014 They're hardly waterproof units anyway, surely? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 That's right. Don't bother with sealing. Just make them electrically safe. A waterproof light would be a specialist item anyway. Hot glue is good for general fixing- just don't assume it has any insulating properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schuurman Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 well I just want to keep debris and dust from getting in, these aren't well made...each plus has a huge gap of space around where the cable goes in, I wanted to fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 5, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted October 5, 2014 Photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Hot glue would be OK for that. But if you have the sealant, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 5, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted October 5, 2014 Um. Hot glue, on a hot light? Silicone is fairly heatproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now