Nizo and Canon (Brand new to Super-8 HELP)

Jackson Clark · December 20, 2014

Alrighty, looking to purchase a Super 8 camera to get the experience of producing something narrative through the film medium. Ive been shooting alot of HDSLR narratives...but i'm excited to have an opportunity to shoot and edit on film, and really feel the value of each and every frame.

Saying that, I realize how niche Super 8 is. It will be expensive, so i've determined that I will try shooting and developing the film myself, editing linearly, and projecting to view.

If I do decide to digitize my media, where is the cheapest to get 1 or 2 carts developed and have decent 1080p scan. I live in Ohio, so centers in New England would be better.

On to cameras...

I want to get the cleanest image I can from Super 8, and generally want to treat the process as much like shooting 16mm as possible. That means that I will try to manually expose every scene I shoot...how consistent is that to do compared to HDSLR shooting?

Also, whats the deal with stocks? How does the 100D differ from the 200D? Where does asa rating come into play? Generally what are some tips for dealing with tri x?

Finally, which camera would be best to invest in? I've been seeing the Nizo S800 and S560 models and Canon's 518sv models. Are these "good" cameras? Which has better glass? Are there any that are gonna be better/more bangy for bucky for what I want to be shooting (Alot of tripod)?

Also, I am kinda mystified by the price differences between cameras. Does it all come down to features, because it certainly appears like the huge price differences have to be coming from somewhere else. Perhaps manufacturing standards?

Thanks for any responses...I know I have a lot of questions, and I really appreciate any help that you can give me:)

Looking forward to jumping in,

Jackson Clark

Josh Gladstone · December 20, 2014

Lot of questions, so I'll try to answer a bunch in no particular order.

A lot of factors go into camera prices. Built quality, feature set, lens quality and rarity all effect the demand, and therefore the price. Which camera you want might depend on what factors you find most important. It seems like you want to do more "studio" type work. Pretty much the top-of-the-line with that regard would be the Leicina Special, Nikon R10, Nizo 6080, and Bauer A512. I personally own a Nikon R10, Nizo 6080, and Bauer A512 (although I just got the Bauer working), and of all of them I'd say the R10 is the most versatile, well built, and with the nicest lens. If I could only have one super 8 camera, it'd probably be that one. The Nizo 6080 is by FAR the quietest, so if you want to be able to record sound, that would be the camera to choose (even if it isn't crystal sync). The Bauer A512 has an external low-light meter and a unique long-exposure timelapse feature that I really dig. (A few other upper-end Bauers have the same feature). I believe the Nizo s800 also has a long-exposure feature as well, although it's more traditional than the Bauer's.

Then there are other cameras like the Canon 310xl. This one is not rare, and can be found pretty inexpensively. It might not be what you're looking for, since it only shoots 18fps and single frame, but it's very compact and has an f/1.0 lens, so you can get some nice super low-light stuff. I also have a Beaulieu 1008xl which is pretty nice, has a decent lens, and has a form factor similar to the Nizo 6080, but isn't as quiet. Still, I wouldn't discount it. I've also got a Chinon Pocket 8, which like the 310xl only shoots 18fps, but it also fits in your pocket and weighs only 450g. There are so many cameras and they all have their purposes, so really it all depends on what kind of shooting you want to be doing.

As for ASA or ISO, those numbers tell you how sensitive the film is to light. Every time the number doubles, the film is twice as fast -- meaning it needs half as much light to get the same exposure. So 100 speed film is half as fast as 200 speed film, 200 is half as fast as 400 speed, 400 is half as fast as 800, etc. The D or T after the number indicates that the film is color balanced for either Daylight or Tungsten light. Tri-x is black and white film, so it is not balanced for either (although you will notice that Kodak recommends you rate it differently if you're in daylight or tungsten. As I understand it, this is to compensate for how the film reacts to blue.)

Manual exposure. This depends on the camera, but most of the higher end cameras, and a lot of the lower end cameras actually have manual exposure. Assuming you know how to use a light meter and your camera is working properly, it is exceedingly consistent. Like, scientifically consistent! Really it's kind of remarkable. Thanks, Kodak!

Tips for Tri-x. Expose properly? The general rule of thumb for getting the most information on your film when shooting negative is to overexpose just a little. For reversal film, it's the opposite. But I wouldn't go overboard underexposing your film since Tri-x doesn't have the latitude that Vision3 has. Generally I just expose as recommended on the box and everything comes out lovely.

Developing yourself is very possible and really fun. Developing Tri-x as a negative is very easy. I do it in D-76, but I've also done Caffenol with great results. The reversal step requires mixing up a special type of bleach, so it's more involved and there are more hazardous chemicals. Keep in mind, if you want to process as a negative, Tri-x comes out contrastier and grainier than if you'd done the reversal step.

Here's a Youtube playlist with some of my films if you're interested. Generally I put what camera, filmstock, and developer I used in the description. (keep in mind these are all scanned on a homemade scanner that I'm constantly trying to improve)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6E414828ACB06EE9

Hope that helps!

Edited December 20, 2014 by Josh Gladstone

Anthony Schilling · December 20, 2014

If you buy from Ebay, make sure you get a camera that is said to work and hold the seller to it if it doesn't. Stay away from attic finds that the seller is unaware of the running condition but wants a market ebay price.

I've been using a Canon 814XLS and Nizo 481 Macro for the last decade. They are both really good but different. My Canon has slightly better optics and holds audio sync longer, but the Nizo is a lot more portable and has more cool features. I would go for a Nizo 481 or 561 with macro. The only downside for the Nizo is that it will need 2 Wein Cell batteries for the light meter. I do decent scans on reversal and negative for $15 per roll. do a roll or two for free (not including shipping) so you can get a feel for it. PM me if you're interested.

Chris Burke · December 20, 2014

I have two cameras that I am willing to sell. PM me.

Chris Burke · December 20, 2014

Tri-x will work with any super 8 camera around today, set to Auto Exposure. It screams "Super 8" more than anything else. Bravo to you for jumping in the deep end. Generally, you light it to how it will look, no intension to or room for tweaking in post. Get the look in camera. Tri-x is similar in dynamic range to a DSLR, not much. You can light it very flat and go from there, but shadows drop off really quick and highlights will clip just as fast. But that is the reason why lots of folks shoot this stock in the first place.

Jackson Clark · December 21, 2014

Thank you so much for helping me out. Really appreciate the stock and scanning info.

Most of the cameras that have been mentioned are nowhere to be found on eBay, but I think i have found relatives. Saying that, I really do not wish to spend more than $80-100 on the camera. But, I still really want manual exposure, 24fps, and good enough optics. Like I have stated before, I really don't see myself using the light meter.

I have been seeing alot of "working" cameras from this seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Braun-Nizo-S560-Super-8-Movie-Camera-w-Variogon-1-1-8-7-56-Lens-Working-/381090821815?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item58bac876b7

And was wondering if anyone else had experience with them? They seems to have the cheapest prices...and they say that the cameras work. Anyone have opinions?

Thank you guys so much again!